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Marcus Johnson: Welcome everyone to In the Game, an EMARKETER sports marketing podcast. This is a conversation about the spectacle of sports. Hello folks, I'm Marcus and today I'm alongside, living in New York, newsletter analyst Marisa Jones.

Marisa Jones: Hi Marcus. Thank you for having me.

Marcus Johnson: Absolute pleasure. Thank you for being here.

Marcus Johnson: I'm also joined by principal analyst, living in Philly, Max Willens.

Max Willens: Yo.

Marcus Johnson: Yes. Today we're talking all [00:01:00] about the spectacle around sports. So Trump's UFC fights bring historic spectacle to White House, writes Danielle Kurtzleben of NPR. The UFC built an arena on the South Lawn of the White House and hosted seven MMA cage fights in honor of the nation's 250th anniversary.

Marcus Johnson: As Joseph Gedeon of The, The Guardian, British newspaper, describes, "Bright lights, fireworks, and fighter plane flyovers, thousands of spectators, and the first major professional sporting event ever staged at the White House." Sponsor logos on the mat included Polymarket, the offshore crypto casino Stake, a tourism campaign for the once ostracized Riyadh, and Bud Light.

Marcus Johnson: Matt Murrett of The Athletic notes that UFC Freedom 250, as it was called, drew an average of seven million viewers to Paramount+ in the US, according to Nielsen. The UFC said total viewership was 17 million people across the US and Latin America. Domestically, the UFC [00:02:00] said Freedom 250 was the most viewed event in the country's, and company's domestically, history, as well as the most watched live event replay in Paramount+ history.

Marcus Johnson: So it broke all the records. MMA league said that metrics, once you included Australia, India, China, all the others, uh, globally, 34 million people tuned in, making it one of the most watched events globally in history too. Um, Max, I'll start with you. Um, we wanted to talk about spectacle events or the spectacle of events.

Marcus Johnson: Uh, me and Stuart who runs the team were talking about this, uh, and we thought it'd be an interesting conversation for, for an episode. There's a few ways of, of looking at this, that one of the ways is the way, uh, I've kind of framed it, which is these one-off marquee sporting events. Another are these kind of sporting occasion adjacent events, so they would be like the NFL Draft, something that is sporting related, but not the actual sporting event.

Marcus Johnson: What do you make of the size, the scale of something like these one-off the marquee sporting events? [00:03:00]

Max Willens: Well, uh, I guess it sort of depends on which definition we're going with. I tend to think of... When we were prepping for this, I was sort of thinking more of the, I guess you would call them sport adjacent things- Mm-hmm

Max Willens: like the drafts, um, like exhibition day, like, uh, signing days, uh, for college, uh, athletics. And, um, to me, what's, it, what just continues to astonish me is how large these things have turned, how large these things have become, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, the, um, the NBA Draft, uh, which, you know, I'm a, a pretty, a hardcore basketball fan and, a- and even I acknowledge that sometimes I'm sitting there watching the second round and thinking like, "This is a truly b- indefensible use of your time.

Max Willens: Like, why, why are you doing this? Um, but there are apparently millions like me. I mean, there were, you know, the NBA draft averaged 4.2 million people watching it this past year. [00:04:00] Um, and that's up 10%, you know? That's, this isn't- Yeah ... like a completely flat-lined, um, you know, identified group of sickos. This is a growing population of people.

Max Willens: The NFL drafts, um-

Marcus Johnson: Well, really quickly. The, it's also the M- the 2026 NBA draft drew double the audience of an average NBA game Which is shocking, but sorry, the NFL please

Max Willens: No, I mean, that's actually a really wonderful way, uh, or, or thing to point out is, is that sort of, uh, distance from the average. Mm-hmm.

Max Willens: Um, the NFL, you know, like they're average 13.3 million viewers for the third round. When you get out over the full three days, you know, days two and three really truly are for sickos. Um, over the three days it averaged 6.6 million. Mm-hmm. But that again, was, was up over time, and I think that, you know, the things that keep kind of growing these things are the reasons why you see brand interest grow in them.

Max Willens: Not, not so much the, like growing top line number of people, although by [00:05:00] linear television standards, you know, 4.2 million people tuning into anything is gonna make an advertiser sit up and s- and pay attention. Mm-hmm. But I think that they offer a lot of really unique, uh, s- kind of op- branding opportunities that as a, as a marketer I would think are maybe kind of irresistible, right?

Max Willens: Like, it's... There's a lot of passion and excitement. Mm-hmm. But it's also by sporting event standards, like it's an almost zero stakes setting, right? It's basically, it's all upside, you know? Even if some team that you root for picks a player you weren't expecting them to pick, um, you're still gonna go, "Well, the hell with it.

Max Willens: I, w- I support him." You know? Like, even if it's not the guy that you thought that they were gonna draft or, um, you know, some trade happens that gets people all, um, exercised, it's still basically a moment of, you know, it's, it's big moments of joy- Yeah ... every [00:06:00] 15 minutes- Yeah ... give or take for hours on end.

Max Willens: It's never

Marcus Johnson: loser. Mm-hmm.

Max Willens: That's exactly right. And so, you know, in that context, like, it would be like watching the, you know, Olympics, but you, you know, the, the athlete you're rooting for is guaranteed to medal, you know? Like- And that's kind of an intoxicating proposition for an advertiser, and so- Yeah

Max Willens: there's that and there's, th- there's a separate thing, I don't wanna blather on too much, but like, there's also a sort of separate local, um, advertiser dimension which I think is really interesting to think about.

Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm.

Max Willens: Um, like sticking with the NFL Draft, for example, uh, Pittsburgh's, uh, city tourism, um, organization said that over 800,000 people visited Pittsburgh for the NFL Draft last year.

Max Willens: Um, and for context, like Pittsburgh's metropolitan population is 2.4 million people, right? Like, Pittsburgh's city population is 300,000 people. So like, if you're a, like a local or regional advertiser, like these kinds of things are, you know, kind of once a, once [00:07:00] a year, maybe even like once a generation kind of opportunities if you're not- Yeah

Max Willens: kind of on that short list of cities that gets to host this stuff all the time.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. It's a rec- it was record attendance. Um, and 800,000 people is, um- I mean, we're talking multiples. Yeah, multiples bigger than a Super Bowl audience, um, in terms of, like, people being at, at the Super Bowl. So I think that's incredibly impressive.

Marcus Johnson: Um, it's also interesting as well 'cause the draft used to be in one place. It was in New York for 50 years. Uh, and then about 12 years ago, they started hopping around between, uh, different cities, uh, rotating. A- and that's had a huge impact in terms of local, um, uh, ratings, local everything really. Marisa, it- I'm glad Max brought up the NFL draft because, um, I was looking.

Marcus Johnson: The NFL draft, you said 13.2 million people, uh, in 2026. That's nearly as many viewers as a Thursday Night Football game on, uh, on Amazon Prime. Um, that drew about 15.3 [00:08:00] million. Um, and I thought Nielsen had a really good article. They were pointing out just how big something like the draft has become. They said when Tom Brady, widely recognized as the GOAT of football, was selected by the New England Patriots with the 199th pick in the 2000 NFL dra- uh, NFL Draft, the announcement was made in front of a small crowd at Madison Square Garden and a, and a modest ESPN2 audience.

Marcus Johnson: 26 years later, Fernando Mendoza's selection as the number-one pick by the Las Vegas Raiders became a major spectacle, uh, announced by the NFL Commissioner, Roger Goodell, before hundreds of thousands of fans in Pittsburgh, 13 million people tuning in across the major networks, uh, billions of impressions on social media.

Marcus Johnson: Things have changed quite a lot in terms of the importance of these events.

Marisa Jones: I think one of the kind of unique draws of these events, especially like NFL, NBA drafts, is to your point that you said earlier, the N- NBA, um, draft, I believe, accounted for more viewership than actual NBA games. Mm-hmm. I think- Yeah

Marisa Jones: kind of the [00:09:00] appeal potentially to marketers, um, specifically is that these events often capture audiences who aren't necessarily super tuned in sports viewers. They're much more casual fans who are kind of tuning into this spectacle event, um, to see. Uh, it's very much a unique event that maybe people who aren't watching every sports game still wanna see who's gonna be on their team, who they're gonna see throughout the year highlights of- Yeah

Marisa Jones: um, rather than having to watch the whole game. Mm-hmm. So I think for marketers, that does open up opportunities, but also maybe introduces some confusion because you're not necessarily marketing to these passionate, engaged audiences who are tuning in for every, every single game. There's a much wider audience there to appeal to, which I think, uh, creates a need for specific strategies that appeal to these more casual fans.

Max Willens: I just wanna add to that by saying that I think one of the things that's- Y- you see also too, though, that the teams themselves, [00:10:00] and the leagues I guess as well, have kind of digested that reality and it- Mm-hmm ... it's, it, you, it manifests in, like, the way that they approach it, right? So, like, there was this big thing that, um, the LA Rams', um, social team got a lot of shine for, uh, during the p- this past NFL draft where, like, right, I think it was maybe right before the NFL draft started, they, they put together this, like, skit on Instagram with Snoop Dogg and O.J.

Max Willens: Jackson Jr. that was meant to be, like, a parody of the movie Friday called Thursday. And- ... um, that did, like, crazy numbers, and it's the sort of thing that, you know, like, f- for good or ill, like, the, the s- the, a lot of teams' social media accounts, like, they try to keep things light and fun, but, like, during the season they sort of can't s- you know, um, get too silly or else- Mm-hmm

Max Willens: their, their fans, uh, get upset about it. But in a setting like this where, like, the whole point is to just get excited about, you know- Yeah ... meeting someone new, like, it really gives these teams an [00:11:00] opportunity to sort of let their hair down metaphorically and, and, like, I think that that's also sort of contributed to the, um, you know, uh, growing interest in, in part- partnering and activating around these- Mm-hmm

Max Willens: kinds of things.

Marisa Jones: Mm-hmm.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. It's interesting too because even if people don't like the idea of the events, it can still do huge numbers, and what I'm referencing here is the UFC 250, I s- as I said, it's the most, uh, highest, um, uh, most watched UFC event domestically. Public opinion, um, would not have suggested that it was gonna be popular, um, but it didn't stop it being the most watched.

Marcus Johnson: According to Reuters/Ipsos poll, just 16%, one six, of US adults thought it would be appropriate to hold an MMA, mixed martial arts, fighting match on the White House lawn. Even among Republicans, uh, the idea wasn't popular, 31% saying it's appropriate, 22 disapproving, 36 neither. Um- But the spectacle of it just kind of [00:12:00] draws you in.

Marcus Johnson: Similar to the, um, Jake Paul, Mike Tyson, uh, heavyweight fight, uh, that shattered records, becoming the most streamed sporting event in history. Estimated 108 million people, uh, or live viewers globally, um, tuning into that. They're Super Bowl numbers. You know, one in five Netflix households globally tuned into that, and it was a terrible fight.

Marcus Johnson: Uh, fight's generous. A- and so it... A lot of the time, the event doesn't even have to be magnificent. Just the hype around it is enough to, to draw people in.

Max Willens: Well, I think that there's... What you're getting at here, Marcus, is something that I think is also really, really important to underline here, which is that, like, we as a sort of culture, I guess, are s- I think there's definitely kind of like a, a, a hunger a- and a largely un- unsatiated hunger for stuff that we can all experience collectively, right?

Max Willens: Mm-hmm. I mean, it's funny. Right Before we started taping, we were, [00:13:00] um, all just asking each other about The Odyssey, which, uh, I don't know what the box office figures are gonna be by the time this episode comes out, but I'm sure the answer is, like, huge. Mm-hmm. I mean, that, it's, it's turned into, like, a gigantic phenomenon of a thing, and you look at just, like, f- film box office figures generally, and it, it shows that- You know, between that and kind of like live sports viewing going up, I think that what all of that speaks to in a sort of broader cultural sense is that people want to experience something together, even if it's something that they necess- don't necessarily, like, understand at a high level or find that interesting.

Max Willens: I mean, even the World Cup's a great example, right? Like-

Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm.

Max Willens: I went to, uh, Philadelphia, which was one of the host cities for the World Cup, had this gigantic, um, FIFA fan fest thing that was set up actually not so far from my house, and I went once with my family. And I would say that it ... First of all, the attendance was crazy.

Max Willens: Like, there was clearly several thousand people there. I was there for a quarterfinal match. And I would say maybe 30% [00:14:00] of the attendees were people with, you know, kits on f- for, you know, certain sides, but probably 60% were people that were just gawking. And, like, they c- I could tell barely had a handle on what was happening in the match.

Max Willens: They, like, you know, didn't understand why, you know, when players were offsides. They didn't understand, um, stoppage time. Um, but they were there because they were like, "This is happening, and it's happening, and we're all here, and we're gonna, we're gonna figure it out." Mm-hmm. And I think that that's something that's, that's worth kind of thinking about too, especially when it comes to, like, the Jake Paul fight, right?

Max Willens: Like, the people that tuned into that are not, uh, fans of the pugilist arts, right? Yeah. Like, they were just like, "A guy I've heard of, another guy I've heard of are gonna beat the bejesus out of each other." "And, uh, and I don't have to leave my couch to watch it."

Marcus Johnson: Yeah.

Max Willens: So I, I do think that, like, that's actually something that is worth lingering on or talking about a bit is, like, how much more [00:15:00] brands and media companies can do to serve this hunger that we all have for something that we all kind of take in together, whether it's exciting or grotesque or, you know, both.

Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh, large audiences, um, but also live audiences, um, appointment viewing, uh, so to speak. Another version of that is Formula 1, which has become a lot more popular in the US with the addition of the races in Las Vegas and Miami. Um, the 2025 Formula 1 season, so they have, for people who don't follow Formula 1, they have...

Marcus Johnson: It's a three-day event, travel around the world, uh, about 20 races, uh, throughout the year, travel around the world to different countries, different cities for the race, and then Friday they practice, Saturday they have a qualifying to see who's gonna go where in the line, and then Sunday's the race. Uh, in 2025 Formula 1 season, the Grand Prix Sunday races averaged about 76 million live viewers globally.

Marcus Johnson: Um, the qualifying sessions on Saturday [00:16:00] averaged roughly 50 to 60 million viewers. In the US market, about 50% of the Sunday race audience pays attention to the Saturday. So again, tens of millions of people tuning into qualifying, which is basically just like, I don't know, half an hour of watching cars individually kinda go round the track, uh, and, and overtake each other, uh, very rarely, um, because they're all racing against each other for to qualify.

Marcus Johnson: So, um, there is a huge appetite for really anything live, anything spectacle. Marisa, how, how do folks market around spect- the spectacle events or spectacle events? What, what changes for an advertiser at, at this type of, um, an occasion?

Marisa Jones: Yeah, um, I think beyond what I said about kind of focusing on the more casual viewer, there are kind of a need to focus on often these events are there's a big lead up to them, they're multi-day often- Mm-hmm

Marisa Jones: um, like the draft. Um, so there is the need to also plan around building anticipation before the [00:17:00] event, um, perhaps using giveaways, creator content, things like that to kind of build anticipation, but also the need to stay active pretty much every day of the event or throughout the duration of the event.

Marisa Jones: There is also an opportunity to extend the momentum afterwards the, the event. There's highlights, behind the scenes content. Um- Mm-hmm ... it does kind of give, I think, a bigger window than just a one-off sports game might. Um, obviously there's tournaments like the World Cup that also kind of have this storyline almost of continuing throughout several weeks or days.

Marisa Jones: Um, so I think there is a need to kind of tailor a strategy that way.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. I think this is a brilliant point, Max. It's all about the story- Yeah ... and the, um, the, the, the quality of, of, of the match or, uh, the match that is to come is almost secondary to this long kind of promotional build-up, uh, that is the story behind the match.

Max Willens: Mm-hmm. Oh, for sure. And I think also even to, to extend [00:18:00] it still further, there's the opportunity to sort of use the moment itself as a springboard for something that, that continues on afterwards, right? Like I was looking at, um, you know, this list of the NFL draftees whose Instagram followings spiked the most after getting drafted.

Max Willens: Oh,

Marcus Johnson: interesting.

Max Willens: Uh, th- but you know, think again about, like, the opportunity for that, right? Like, Instagram, um, can't help itself, like they've changed their algorithm, algorithm a lot, but, like, one of the things that they are, um, seemingly hidebound to do is that once you follow an account, the first few posts after that account gets f- you know, you follow that account, you see those posts.

Max Willens: Mm-hmm. And, you know, that's a huge, huge d- um, you know, cheap little opportunity for, you know, if I'm a brand that's partnered with, uh, some kid since his, you know, days as a college athlete via NIL, like- The first posts you, you know, have them do after they get drafted by, you know, whatever NFL or NBA team it is, like [00:19:00] that n- that post is gonna do numbers because, um, you know, all of a sudden that kid has, you know, tens or even hundreds of thousands of new followers who are-

Marcus Johnson: Mm

Max Willens: you know, desperately excited to see what, what they have to say about literally anything. And so- Mm ... I think that there's a big opportunity to sort of, um, you know, use it as a springboard that goes off into the future. Yeah. How far it goes has a lot of variability, right? Yeah. I mean, like th- when we were gonna discuss this, for some reason the first thing that f- came into my mind was this ad that Johnny Davis made for Taco Bell before he got drafted.

Max Willens: Um, I'm sure nobody who listens to this podcast knows who Johnny Davis is unless they follow the Washington Wizards. But he was like- Mm ... kind of a, you know, tough bucket getting, um, s- swing guy at, out of Wisconsin, and he was drafted I think maybe like eighth. And he went on to completely flame out. Like, even in the, in Summer League, people were like Oh, geez Yeah

Max Willens: that's, this is, this is [00:20:00] tough. And he was out of the league like that. So, you know- Mm-hmm ... it's, it's not like this is the start of, you know, you w- you mentioned Tom Brady. This isn't always, like, the start of a 20-year, you know- Right ... relationship and chance. At the career. But exactly. But it, but I did wanna just, this is my too-long way of saying that, like, you know, sometimes the, the pop of, of, you know, being handed that, um, hat and, you know, dapping up a commissioner on stage can sometimes just be the start of something as well, so.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah, yeah. That's a really good point. I thought also it's interesting 'cause it offers fans a level of access that they might not have experienced before. Um, so cere- ceremonial, the kind of fight, uh, weigh-ins, they give away thousands of tickets to fans for free. Um, and, um, you kinda get a bit of a stadium environment, stadium feel.

Marcus Johnson: Access to the, uh, NFL's draft experience i- is free. Max, that, um, event you were talking about with regards to the World Cup, free, I imagine?

Max Willens: Oh, yes.

Marcus Johnson: Right?

Max Willens: I think you had to register via email, but you could, it was free.

Marcus Johnson: Okay. Um, which I [00:21:00] think is especially important, particularly now 'cause everything's very expensive, but particularly because I was looking, the NFL, uh, ticket cost has climbed about 40 to 50% in the past 10 years, and so this does give fans, uh, a chance to get close to a game that they have probably been priced out of.

Max Willens: Yeah. Honestly, that's a really good point, Marcus. I mean, it's, it, it is genuinely shocking how cost-prohibitive it is to attend a regular season, you know, just a regular season game of, of basically any sporting event. I guess the exception is if you, like, root for a baseball team that's maybe not doing so hot, but, uh, and you want, and you're, you know, open to going and seeing them, like, during a weekday in the summertime.

Max Willens: Mm-hmm. But, like- Mm ... it's, other than that, y- you're talking about shelling out, you know, hundreds of dollars if you wanna go with your family to- Mm-hmm ... to see-

Marcus Johnson: At

Max Willens: least, yeah ... again, just, like, a, just a regular season game. If you wanna watch them in the playoffs, like- Get ready to spend, you know, at least twice that.

Max Willens: Um-

Marcus Johnson: Yeah ...

Max Willens: as I, I'm a Knicks [00:22:00] fan, so, like, you know, the prospect of me going to watch them play at MSG in the playoffs is, is basically off the table unless- Yep ... um, you know, someone in my family robs a bank and- ... gives me some money without, you know, telling me where it came from.

Marcus Johnson: It was expensive to see them when they weren't good.

Marcus Johnson: I, I'm, I'm interested to see what the cost of tickets will be next year. Obviously, the finals it was 10 grand to get into the building, 70 to 100 grand to get close to the court. Um, they're good now, so I, I, yeah, I can't even imagine. I was also thinking of ways to, uh, best reach fans who aren't at the game but viewing content adjacent to the sporting event.

Marcus Johnson: Uh, and, uh, there are a couple of examples here. I'll throw out one or two. Um, I thought the Monster Energy Punch Meter. So Monster Energy hosts interactive fan villages outside weigh-in areas featuring digital punching bags that measure striking power against fighter metrics, so you can kind of compare yourself to, to the different fighters.

Marcus Johnson: [00:23:00] Uh, participants can win front row event seats by achieving top daily scores. Um, and this other one, the Salesforce Ghost Car experience at major races. Salesforce set up simulation zones where fans drive a virtual lap around the track, and the simulation superimposes a ghost car of the real-time pole position qualifying lap onto, uh, the fans' screen, so fans can physically feel, um, how much faster a professional driver takes corners.

Marcus Johnson: I've always thought this would be cool in the Olympics if, um, they showed, uh, th- th- someone like Usain Bolt racing against a regular person, and you could just get a sense of how incredible these athletes are compared to average people. And it seems like these are a few examples of ways that people can feel like they're getting close to, to athletes or to the event.

Marcus Johnson: Um, any thoughts on the best ways to, to reach fans who aren't actually at the game?

Marisa Jones: Um, I think there's also beyond kind of doing something kind of that also ties in to the sporting event like that, just kind of [00:24:00] targeting people who are priced out of actually going to the game but who are still watching it on their devices.

Marisa Jones: A lot of these people- Mm-hmm ... are going to be multitasking on different devices. Um, I think second screen marketing is one of the best opportunities for a lot of brands who are also priced out of these games, um, to still get involved in the conversation around the game. Um, we see that the majority of sports viewers are using a second screen, like a smartphone, as they're watching.

Marisa Jones: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. So that is really a great opportunity to do it for maybe a lower price, um, for people who are do- multitasking while they watch. Um, there is data showing major events like the FIFA World Cup, 59% of US fans are using a second screen. Oh, interesting. Um, that's particularly high among Gen Z- Gen Z.

Marisa Jones: Um, so I think that's just a great opportunity to be able to afford marketing around the game, doing content that relates to the game for people who are [00:25:00] looking up things on their phone about the game.

Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah.

Max Willens: I also, um, you know, thinking a lot about what's possible to do in and around, um, just, you know, good old-fashioned, like, sports bars, right?

Max Willens: I mean, like-

Marcus Johnson: Mm ...

Max Willens: um, that's proven to be a pretty durable, you know, way that people look to experience, um, these things. And I- my days of going to sports bars all the time are, are sort of behind me, but I, it is funny to me how every time I'm kind of in one how kind of, like, trapped in amber the experience is.

Max Willens: And I, I wonder whether there's some, like, opportunity to build in some innovation there, either in terms of, like- Giving stuff out or kind of augmenting the experience in some way. Um- Yeah ... I, you know, no free ideas, uh, or anything. But that- As a sort of, like, venue or a, a kind of like- Yeah ... you know, a canvas.

Max Willens: That to me, that seems like one that's kind of ripe for, [00:26:00] um, you know, trying something new.

Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. These are great. Um, these are great points. And, uh, I, I got one more example here, um, which I'll throw out there before we close the show. Um, Toyo Tires had a face off booth, so, uh, like a UFC event. They, they had a digital photo booth that let fans, uh, face a life-sized version, uh, high definition hologram, I should say, of a UFC, uh, champion, uh, for a shareable split-screen video experience.

Marcus Johnson: The activation leveraging iconic pre-fight stare down, um, that they have at the weigh-ins to produce professional grade content for social, um, which I think is a huge part of this as well. Uh, as much content as you can help people, uh, fans, uh, create for their own social, uh, media platforms, uh, is gonna also be a huge win.

Marcus Johnson: Uh, well, that's all we've got time for, for this episode. I hope to see you guys, uh, next month for more, uh, sports marketing. Thank you to Luigi and Mike on [00:27:00] production today. And of course, thanks to my guests, Marisa-

Marisa Jones: Thank you

Marcus Johnson: And Max.

Max Willens: Always a pleasure, Marcus. Thank you.

Marcus Johnson: Yes, indeed. And to everyone for listening to In the Game, an EMARKETER sports marketing podcast.

Marcus Johnson: Tune in tomorrow to listen to the Behind the Numbers show to hear about the most intriguing imbalances between where advertisers are spending their money and where consumers are spending their time.