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[00:00:00] Suzy Davidkhanian: Today's episode is sponsored by AWIN, the world's leading brands grow through partnership marketing with AWIN's enterprise technology, AI-powered insights, and expert US regional support. With 30,000 advertisers, one million partners worldwide, and more than $20 billion in partner-driven revenue generated just last year, AWIN helps brands turn partnerships into [00:00:20] growth.

[00:00:20] Suzy Davidkhanian: Learn more at awin.com/us. Join EMARKETER's The Future of Digital Summit on September 15th in New York City for a full day of research, expert analysis, and executive conversations on AI visibility, commerce media, and the future of marketing. Click the registration link in the show notes for tickets[00:00:40]

[00:00:43] Suzy Davidkhanian: Hi, everyone. Today is Wednesday, August 19th. Welcome to EMARKETER's weekly retail show, Reimagining Retail, an EMARKETER podcast made possible by AWIN. This is the show where we talk about how retail collides with every part of our lives, and I'm your host, Suzy Davidkhanian. On today's [00:01:00] episode, we're tackling a question we've all been asking ourselves: Why does shopping still feel so disconnected when brands and retailers know so much about us?

[00:01:07] Suzy Davidkhanian: Joining me from Texas is podcast regular, Sky Canaves. Hey, Sky.

[00:01:12] Sky Canaves: Hey, Suzy. Glad to be here.

[00:01:13] Suzy Davidkhanian: We're so happy to have you. And special guest, Keith Lehmann, global marketing director of digital commerce and retail media at [00:01:20] Colgate, joining me in the studio. Hey, Keith.

[00:01:21] Keith Lehman: Hi, Suzy.

[00:01:22] Suzy Davidkhanian: Thanks so much for joining us.

[00:01:23] Keith Lehman: It's great to be here.

[00:01:24] Suzy Davidkhanian: Okay, so before we even get started, we wanted to do a very quick, 30 seconds or less introduction. Keith, tell us, what do you do in a sentence?

[00:01:32] Keith Lehman: Global oversight and strategy development for retail media frameworks. Pretty much anything that's marketing [00:01:40] enablement for digital commerce.

[00:01:41] Suzy Davidkhanian: And you work on, obviously, Colgate, but do you- tell us some other brands from Colgate-Palmolive.

[00:01:45] Keith Lehman: Yeah. So Colgate family of brands, um, we've got Tom's of Maine. We have Hill's Pet Nutrition, which I spent the majority of my career with. We've got hello brands, which is a fantastic line as well. Um, and skincare, um, PCA and [00:02:00] Elta, uh, and Florga. Large house of brands. Big list. Big list. I

[00:02:03] Suzy Davidkhanian: love that.

[00:02:03] Keith Lehman: Yes.

[00:02:03] Suzy Davidkhanian: Across many categories, many markets.

[00:02:05] Keith Lehman: Mm-hmm.

[00:02:06] Suzy Davidkhanian: Tell us what is, just one, pick your favorite book, podcast, something that you've recently seen, watched, TV.

[00:02:15] Keith Lehman: I have to have humor in my life, for sure, and in late 2000s, I [00:02:20] don't know if you've watched, but Scrubs-

[00:02:22] Suzy Davidkhanian: Oh my God, of course ...

[00:02:22] Keith Lehman: was one, is my favorite. Is it? And I just love, well, up until- A certain season Do you like the new, do you like the- So the new Hulu reboot- Yeah

[00:02:32] Keith Lehman: is just making me goosebumpy, and I'm just so over the moon that th- that they decided to come back. It's so great.

[00:02:38] Suzy Davidkhanian: I don't think I gave it a chance. Are you [00:02:40] watching it, Sky? Yeah.

[00:02:40] Sky Canaves: No, I just wrapped up The Pitt, which is a totally different- The Pitt was good ... kind of, uh- It is good too ... medical show, and also brings back a lot of '90s memories for me.

[00:02:49] Keith Lehman: Yeah. That's

[00:02:49] Suzy Davidkhanian: true.

[00:02:49] Keith Lehman: Yeah, I had the soundtracks on repeat all the time. It was great. I love that. Zach Braff does a

[00:02:53] Suzy Davidkhanian: great job. I'm gonna give it another shot.

[00:02:54] Keith Lehman: Okay.

[00:02:55] Suzy Davidkhanian: This is a good, good endorsement. Okay. So we've all had this happen to us. You finally buy [00:03:00] something. You've been researching it for eons. You've spent the next month now watching ads for the exact product you have already purchased.

[00:03:09] Suzy Davidkhanian: Or another thing that happens often that I don't know, it's kind of annoying, it's like you're repeating yourself and re-identifying yourself in every channel that you go to, even though you're talking about [00:03:20] the same brand. Those moments may seem small, but they reveal something much bigger. Customer experience, one continuous journey.

[00:03:27] Suzy Davidkhanian: But brands and retailers have to bring together people, technology, and partners behind the scenes to make that journey feel seamless for the customer. So today I'm really excited 'cause we're gonna dive in to see what it actually takes to create a [00:03:40] connected customer experience, and why that's becoming one of retail's biggest opportunities.

[00:03:44] Suzy Davidkhanian: So before we start, I wanna ask you both, tell me about the last product that seemed to follow you around the internet, whether you purchased it or not, and was that annoying, or did it lead you to make that purchase? Keith?

[00:03:59] Keith Lehman: It's [00:04:00] so interesting that we get to this topic. My mother-in-law was in town this last week, and we're sitting there watching some movies, and I'm not gonna, um, say which platform, but there was this, uh, I won't say it, but it, it was a commerce platform that has been following me around.

[00:04:14] Keith Lehman: And my family and I are sitting around, and I'm logged in as me, and the, it, it starts to talk [00:04:20] about, you know, gain efficiencies and work through your organization- ... and get more conversions. And I'm like, "Oh, it's saying the right stuff." And I'm looking across, and my kids are, like, so confused, and I, I raise my hand.

[00:04:30] Keith Lehman: I'm like, "It, this is because of me. I'm so sorry." Yeah. "This is, this is 100% targeting me." My mother-in-law looks at me and she goes, "Wait a minute. So different people get different commercials?" [00:04:40] And I'm like, "Oh, wow." Yeah. So it was a teaching moment. It was, it was- Yeah ... it was like I have to unpack this because I think there's a whole generation that doesn't really understand that there is dynamic and personalized, uh, programming in terms of what you see.

[00:04:53] Keith Lehman: And that was a, an eye-opener for. But they did a great job because it's, it's following me on social, it's following me in connected [00:05:00] TV, it's following me through-

[00:05:01] Suzy Davidkhanian: Well, they know you're the aud- 100% ...

[00:05:02] Keith Lehman: you're a purchaser- Yeah, yeah ...

[00:05:04] Suzy Davidkhanian: of said potential platform.

[00:05:05] Keith Lehman: But then again, as my kids are logged on- Yeah ... as me- Yeah

[00:05:08] Keith Lehman: and throughout the whole household, they're not getting the same, uh, they're, they're wondering why they're- Why it's so- ... they're getting- Yeah ... yeah, commerce platforms.

[00:05:14] Suzy Davidkhanian: Sky, is there something that recently... Like I know for me it's a chip bag clip holder thing that I just, I already purchased it, so I [00:05:20] don't know why it's following me on every gaming platform under the sun.

[00:05:23] Sky Canaves: I'm getting a lot of ads for camps after sending my daughter to camp, and there's one in particular that keeps following me around and- I don't think I'm gonna use it because I'm much more hands-on in making my decisions for her, but it's just inescapable, and I think [00:05:40] I might have to just turn it off.

[00:05:41] Suzy Davidkhanian: Well, and that's kinda what we're gonna talk about today, whether it's following you and it doesn't understand you, or you're logged in as yourself but the system didn't understand that there's many people using that connected TV platform. How do we think about all of that coming together in a way that is more seamless for the customer?

[00:05:57] Suzy Davidkhanian: And Keith, you've seen that, the customer journey from so many different [00:06:00] angles. You worked in stores. You created your own D2C brand. You're now global digital commerce head. What's changed most about what consumers expect from brands today?

[00:06:11] Keith Lehman: Consumers are expecting character. I think being mindful and respectful of, we always talk about time- Yeah

[00:06:18] Keith Lehman: as the biggest currency. Don't waste [00:06:20] it. There was one pharma brand that I, h- does not know how to program frequency capping, and I continuously get, every break, I'm, you know, like I'll sit through a show and I'll at least get, if I'm just sitting there watching episode to episode, I'll get 20, 24, 25 ad rolls for the, that duration.

[00:06:37] Keith Lehman: And you can tell that they're, [00:06:40] they're just not, they're not getting it. And so if you're really thoughtful about what you're consuming and you look in the commerce platform, I probably only see maybe two of those ads while I'm at home and, and watching. You can kind of make up the size of the business.

[00:06:53] Keith Lehman: And these challenger brands and these really small organizations are a lot more mindful of how many campaigns they have [00:07:00] and the ability to utilize their data more sophisticated. And so when I go back to character, it's like having thought weight and being passionate about the data and utilizing it in a respectful way is a demonstration of the character.

[00:07:14] Keith Lehman: Not necessarily, you know, like what they stand for in the broad ecosystem of things. I think that gets a little bit too [00:07:20] far. But at least being more thoughtful about the brand to consumer experience.

[00:07:23] Suzy Davidkhanian: Right.

[00:07:24] Keith Lehman: Yeah.

[00:07:24] Suzy Davidkhanian: And I think, Sky, we talk about this a lot at the office in terms of like consumer expect- Like you said, you know, time is a different way that they consider value, a frictionless experience.

[00:07:34] Suzy Davidkhanian: I think they're just so much more connected in every way, shape, or form [00:07:40] consumers- Mm-hmm ... that what they're expecting from you as a brand is also Be smart.

[00:07:44] Sky Canaves: I think as you mentioned before, brands and retailers have so much more information about us, but it's not always utilized in the most optimal way.

[00:07:52] Sky Canaves: Sometimes what you get is very predictable, like you're seeing just things that you've already bought or things that are very similar to what you've bought, [00:08:00] so you're kind of put in this bucket. Or there's a lack of relevance. One of my pet peeves is I get all these great ads for, like, restaurants on Instagram, but they're in Chicago or Portland, and as you all know, I'm in Austin.

[00:08:14] Sky Canaves: So it's nice if I'm planning a trip there, but these are just being served to me as if I'm [00:08:20] there.

[00:08:20] Suzy Davidkhanian: And I guess that's the thing, right? We give so much data away as consumers, we're expecting for a better experience, and I think everybody is so much more savvy now. So why is that not happening? Why does it feel so disconnected?

[00:08:32] Suzy Davidkhanian: Why am I... Like, literally you can see I'm in Texas, and you're sending me about something in Seattle. And maybe depending on who's [00:08:40] servicing the data, you might know that I just bought a plane ticket, or maybe I've bought nothing and there's no indication that I'm gonna come to Seattle. So how come it's so disconnected?

[00:08:48] Keith Lehman: Behind the scenes, it, like, when you're in roles like mine where you understand the capability, especially with retail media and the brands that are retargeting you after you purchase, you know that there, [00:09:00] there's some disconnect there. Like, there's not interconnected data. You know the mechanics behind why you would get it and what would it take to get you off the rotation.

[00:09:08] Keith Lehman: And when I see something retargeted, I, you know, the media thing is wasted maybe media dollars- Yeah ... because, and usually, typically it's because they've got hundreds of campaigns running, and you're retargeting, but, like, [00:09:20] it's just not working together. And I think when you have so many brands and so large of an organization with...

[00:09:26] Keith Lehman: it's disconnected data. That and a little bit of falling asleep behind the wheel. I mean, we, we have to now be very thoughtful about the campaigns we architect and how all of this works together, but the simplest things of discipline, the mechanics of [00:09:40] discipline and making sure that one campaign is reading the other- Mm

[00:09:42] Keith Lehman: the buying signals, the shopping signals are all informing how you're, you're getting served. That's not happening. And so that is just a real lack of discipline of managing your campaigns.

[00:09:53] Suzy Davidkhanian: And is there a closed loop? So, like, if I've already purchased something, then, then the brand knows, like, oh, don't target [00:10:00] them because they've already bought the chips?

[00:10:02] Suzy Davidkhanian: Or the bag, the clips, whatever it is

[00:10:04] Keith Lehman: Well, it depends on the capabilities. If the brand is buying media through your full funnel, full a- attributed closed loop media mix, you should be, once you purchase, taken off rotation so that, I mean, they, they know that you purchased. So now you shouldn't see an ad [00:10:20] for another two or three weeks to maybe repurchase, or maybe not, however long the product will last.

[00:10:25] Keith Lehman: You- there, there is full control to see that Suzy bought, take her off the rotation, take her off CTV, right? Yeah. Um, and leave her alone for a little bit.

[00:10:33] Suzy Davidkhanian: So it sounds like it's more, it's not so much a technology issue. Like, the technology [00:10:40] is available. It might be an organizational issue, the, the disconnect that we're feeling as consumers?

[00:10:45] Keith Lehman: 100%, and I think it's, a lot of it's volume. A lot of it is just losing track of all of the campaigns that you have available, and some of it is disorganization or just not having the data connected the correct way. The technology is 100% [00:11:00] there.

[00:11:00] Suzy Davidkhanian: So how do we fill that gap? Like, what's the bridge to making sure that the customer experience Feels connected across the different silos.

[00:11:10] Suzy Davidkhanian: Or is there, is that too hard?

[00:11:12] Keith Lehman: I don't think it's too hard. I, I think it's holding the, your, you know, either your agency or whoever's handling your buying accountable for a lot of these. Where you [00:11:20] see ... It's a simple audit, in my opinion- Yeah ... um, to go through and, and make sure that those that are buying are now underserved, and you're serving the, to drive incrementality.

[00:11:29] Keith Lehman: You're not gonna get to incremental growth by serving ads to somebody that's already purchased.

[00:11:33] Suzy Davidkhanian: Right.

[00:11:33] Keith Lehman: Right.

[00:11:34] Suzy Davidkhanian: So it almost feels like there needs to be a retailer brand partner if you're using a third party to help you with [00:11:40] placing-

[00:11:40] Keith Lehman: I, I think it would be- ... alignment ... amazing for retailers to pull up and say, "Hey, here's new capabilities we're starting to getting invented, and created, and connected."

[00:11:48] Keith Lehman: It would be amazing to see retailers say, "A- and help us along. Here's how our technology works, and here's how it's intended, and here how it's designed, and here's maybe where you should make a few adjustments."

[00:11:59] Suzy Davidkhanian: Skye, I know you [00:12:00] cover so many different parts of the customer journey, like loyalty, and marketplaces, and even the digital shelf.

[00:12:05] Suzy Davidkhanian: I mean, it's beyond the customer journey. Some of it is back of house. But are you seeing companies getting better at connecting? 'Cause again, the shopper doesn't think like, "Oh, I'm on this platform," or, "I'm on that platform," or, "I'm in a store." They're just like, "Know who I am. I'm giving you so much data about [00:12:20] myself, whether I'm giving it to you or you're taking it.

[00:12:22] Suzy Davidkhanian: Help me. Help me have a better experience." Are you seeing that sort of changing? Are, are they getting, are c- companies getting better at connecting the dots?

[00:12:31] Sky Canaves: I think it's, as Keith mentioned, there has to be that organizational discipline in place, or desire in place, to overcome those silos. Because what [00:12:40] we've seen over the years is that you have this proliferation of channels.

[00:12:43] Sky Canaves: And as the channels proliferate, brands are kind of seeping, losing control, or giving up control to these platforms. And not just over the content or the narratives, but also over the data. And if they don't get what they need, they have to piece it together, and that's where you have more third parties [00:13:00] involved, more solution providers to try to help them understand where their customer is, where they're coming from, and where they're going.

[00:13:06] Sky Canaves: But they don't always get what they need. And I, I think it's a good point that sometimes it's those, those smaller challenger brands that are a lot more attentive to where their spending is going. And they have fewer silos in place, because if, if you start, say, [00:13:20] as a, as a D2C brand, and then you move into stores, it's, it's a different progression from A brand that starts in stores and then develops e-commerce as a separate capability, and has been treating it separately for years up until very recently.

[00:13:33] Suzy Davidkhanian: So is this, this idea of the, like, ads following us, is that similar to when you're about to check out and all of this... I [00:13:40] mean, it's obviously not similar 'cause it's not an ad, but the personalization of, "Oh, you're about to buy a black dress, so here are some shoes that go well with that." Like, is that the same underpinning of data just serviced in a different place, like it's on the retailer?

[00:13:52] Keith Lehman: It's typically on the retailers. They have a lot of the shopping experience, and that stuff has to happen in real time so that the, the recommendation engines are probably gonna be more [00:14:00] natively organically driven by the retailer because it really uses algorithms, and honestly, because of the nature of how fast.

[00:14:07] Keith Lehman: I haven't seen, but it probably is a great idea to monetize a recommendation based off their shopping before you get to, like, in the checkout space. But that's more of the function of the retailer in my opinion- Yeah ... um, thus far. But Sky, I think you, you brought up a good point [00:14:20] is it's not even just the, the matter of how much you see, it is what you see, too, right?

[00:14:23] Keith Lehman: I cited that I see pharma brand all the time. I've never researched- Needed ... any type of- Yeah ... skin irritation or rash or anything, but I, I continuously get it. So you can tell who's a little bit asleep at the wheel on what they're getting and how often they get it. And it's not as if I'm, I'm doing research [00:14:40] and, and acting on these, these advertising and these messages, which then, you know, you can start to tell as a consumer as you're watching these things, oh, you can...

[00:14:46] Keith Lehman: You, you definitely notice if you're paying attention- Yeah ... um, that these brands are, are, are not utilizing the technology to respect my time, but also they're just wasting dollars.

[00:14:55] Suzy Davidkhanian: It's the wasting dollar part because- Yeah ... not only it, it, like, goes [00:15:00] together. You're wasting your money, and you're irritating me, so I may actually go to someone else- Mm-hmm

[00:15:04] Suzy Davidkhanian: after. So it's like a double loss.

[00:15:06] Keith Lehman: And in some cases people will react. They'll go to social and say, "Just

[00:15:09] Suzy Davidkhanian: stop." Oh, yeah. How annoying is it? "

[00:15:10] Keith Lehman: Stop serving ads to me."

[00:15:11] Suzy Davidkhanian: Yeah. I think some of that also has to do with, like, look-alike modeling, right? When you don't really use the granularity of the data that you have access to, then you start saying, [00:15:20] like, everybody who's this- Age or this location should be doing this, and then you also start to get it wrong.

[00:15:26] Keith Lehman: And that was an okay strategy 10 years ago.

[00:15:29] Suzy Davidkhanian: Yeah.

[00:15:30] Keith Lehman: It is by far matured to a point that we, we can get precise and we can get scientific about these things. And, and so there's, there's multiple dimensions that we need to be pulling from as brands and [00:15:40] advertisers. There's really no excuse to, to kinda have a, a broad lookalike and just let it run on repeat- Yeah

[00:15:46] Keith Lehman: until your, your campaign funds run out.

[00:15:48] Suzy Davidkhanian: Well, you guys, now we're adding AI to the mix, right? And I don't mean like AI, LLMs, consumers are gonna shop there. I mean, we have so many more tools on the backend to try and help connect the dots. Is AI going to make it [00:16:00] easier or harder for companies to connect those dots?

[00:16:03] Keith Lehman: It's gonna happen. It's gonna be hard. It is going to be a kind of a requirement to get mature in this space. I think it's gonna be good, though, for everybody because it'll take our discipline to the next degree. Is exactly what we're saying. It's just like the amplification of our efforts, but the data that we [00:16:20] utilize has to be structured in a way that may be siloed.

[00:16:22] Keith Lehman: We talk about data silos all the time, right? Yeah. But something AI is going to do is, is help connect horizontally so that these verticals are enriched with good information about consumers that are, are a little bit more precise, and then horizontally it'll start connecting all of these things. But I think as large brands and large [00:16:40] companies, you know, like enterprise-wide are, are trying to identify, all right, what is the necessary data?

[00:16:45] Keith Lehman: How is it cleansed? How is it being utilized to make sure I'm not wasting media, I'm more precise, and I'm respecting consumer's time.

[00:16:51] Suzy Davidkhanian: Sky, what are you seeing as you're looking out there in terms of, like, AI and AI on the backend, uh, helping? I, I don't know, 'cause there's also, it's, [00:17:00] it's, there's a possibility that it could expose- Some of the weaknesses in your data and the foundation of the data that you have as a retailer or brand.

[00:17:07] Sky Canaves: Oh, yeah, definitely. Having that proper data foundation becomes absolutely essential, and this is where it does get exposed if, if it's not there or if it's so disconnected or disorganized. It's still very much the case that [00:17:20] garbage in is garbage out with AI. But I think now the challenge is bigger because the stakes are higher because this is a directional shift.

[00:17:27] Sky Canaves: It's not a fad, it's not a trend, and competitors are going to be doing their best to get it right.

[00:17:32] Suzy Davidkhanian: And I do think, like, 'cause we talked a little bit about this upfront, um, there's still room for human judgment. I mean, we're talking a lot about [00:17:40] AI and on the underpinnings on the backend, but before we started, we were...

[00:17:45] Suzy Davidkhanian: Sky, we were talking about how sometimes there's no sale to lock in as a buyer, but that's because the inventory's not on the floor, and it would take a human to go and check the back to see if there actually was, or was it just a bad SKU and it- nobody bought it. And so I think it's really [00:18:00] critical to, to make sure that there is some sort of human in the loop, at least for now, to try and help connect the dots.

[00:18:06] Keith Lehman: Yeah, I think we're all afraid to lose our jobs at some point, that AI will come in. Let's all be honest. But I, I've said this before, AI lacks discernment. Yeah. Like, it, it, it can't make those, those critical decisions. It'll expose our vulnerabilities. But what I think is great [00:18:20] is that from the CEO down to the intern, everyone gets more in tune with the business.

[00:18:25] Keith Lehman: What is missing? How inaccurate is- my product information, how do we enrich it? How do we set up systems to make everything flow and work better? You start to dissect and untie the knots of your business that's been [00:18:40] maybe sitting there for, for quite some time, and actively look at it, actively manage it, and then find ways to m- make your data foundation so much enriched and so much better that it can be utilized for the betterment of the consumer experience.

[00:18:50] Keith Lehman: So it's a catalyst for a better experience, I think.

[00:18:53] Suzy Davidkhanian: And Sky, do you see anyone in the industry, if you feel comfortable naming names, or if not, just experiences [00:19:00] where they're starting to get it right that there is a better connected experience?

[00:19:04] Sky Canaves: Yeah, and the one I'm thinking of, I won't name a name, but I think it really starts with the human element on the other side, on the consumer side, or, or the customer, not just looking at the customer as, like, on a distant data level, but on the more closer and [00:19:20] personal level, who they are, what drives them to buy in different circumstances, and understanding their path to purchase, because this is really what should inform where a brand is investing to get the best returns on marketing and sales.

[00:19:32] Sky Canaves: You know, is it going to be retail partners, stores, social commerce? That's gonna depend on who the customer is for your product. And so some of the brands I [00:19:40] see, one I'm thinking of that's getting it right, is really starting from that, and then figuring out how to use AI to help connect the dots and to help create a better customer experience within their digital channels.

[00:19:51] Keith Lehman: Up vote, 100%. I, I totally agree, Sky. I think those brands that are focused on what problems they're solving for consumers to make their lives easier helps to [00:20:00] prioritize the gigantic chasm of a mess of what data could be And as long as they focus on that prioritization of what is the big problem to solve, I think they're, they're gonna be the winners.

[00:20:09] Keith Lehman: I think the challenger brands that are coming up, they're up and coming. I, I envy them a little bit because they're built on data foundations. Like, their, their full business model is, is built in [00:20:20] the 2020 era, and they know how to start from the ground up. And for those that have been around for hundreds of years, raising my hands, that's hard to untangle- Yeah

[00:20:29] Keith Lehman: because it's years of, of data storage and, and- And legacy

[00:20:32] Suzy Davidkhanian: systems

[00:20:32] Keith Lehman: and- Yeah, legacy systems that do not talk to each other. Yeah. So I, I think you see the best agility and nimbleness in the use of [00:20:40] data in, in more of those brands that are up and coming because they have a more of a full grasp of what capabilities they have, and their data is a little bit more fine-tuned.

[00:20:47] Suzy Davidkhanian: Well, and it sounds like we all agree if you put the customer first, then you're gonna look for the right solutions that will make the customer feel heard. And maybe some of the larger brands have to really think about their data [00:21:00] foundation, their data lakes. I mean, that was a big thing for a while.

[00:21:02] Suzy Davidkhanian: Mm-hmm. The data warehouses, and, like, how do you make sure that everybody within one organization has access to the same data to make good decisions so it doesn't feel disconnected?

[00:21:12] Keith Lehman: Yeah. No, I agree, and if you can think about, you know, having all of these legacy systems, all these data... Uh, like, I'm in a, a part of a global company.

[00:21:18] Keith Lehman: It's not all English. [00:21:20] Um- Yeah ... and so, like, who's defining? This is a ocean of work to, to be able to figure that out. And if we try to tackle it all, we won't be AI-ready until 2035. Like, it's- Yeah ... it's not gonna happen, so we have to be more choiceful. And the best thing that we can point to is how do we make it better for the consumer?

[00:21:36] Suzy Davidkhanian: So then that leaves me with, we all I think can hold hands and [00:21:40] say the consumer is also gonna change, right? We're gonna have the human consumer. Sky has been writing a lot about there's gonna be the AI-assisted consumer human in the loop, and at some point, some purchases will be end-to-end agentic commerce without the human.

[00:21:52] Suzy Davidkhanian: So how can brands today build for that in terms of thinking about that customer experience and the journey so it doesn't feel [00:22:00] disconnected?

[00:22:01] Sky Canaves: Yeah, it starts with, you know, understanding this new AI consumer, and brands do need to get their product data and content structured and optimized for that LLM readability and to win LLM preference.

[00:22:13] Sky Canaves: And this is something that wasn't really considered in the same way before. But I think that hybrid human consumer that is [00:22:20] using AI, the AI-powered human shopper, is where it gets most interesting 'cause we're in a world where AI platforms are playing a bigger role, um, not just the third-party platforms, but the retailer assistants.

[00:22:31] Sky Canaves: But the humans still hold the ultimate decision-making power. And where what we see is at the middle of the funnel, the consideration phase is becoming more [00:22:40] complex. There are more touchpoints as human shoppers get recommendations, but then they go outside of AI to validate them and to do further research.

[00:22:47] Sky Canaves: And often, the sources they're looking for, the high-trust sources, are the same ones that AI platforms or assistants rely on, um, for their recommendations.

[00:22:57] Keith Lehman: Mine is simple. I mean, I agree with Sky 100% [00:23:00] operationally. That's what you should be thinking about. But mine's a little bit more tangible. And I'm not saying everybody hang up and not stop listening.

[00:23:05] Keith Lehman: But after the podcast, I would say go shop for your favorite hobby. Go look for any, any products that are sitting on your counter right now and start doing some shopping and get familiar with what is the agent helping you understand about these products because it's more conversational. Like [00:23:20] s- if you think about how you search traditionally, you're noticing your behavior changing.

[00:23:24] Keith Lehman: I know I do. Yeah. When I'm in this Google Search bar, it's now a sentence, a question. It's no longer a two-word branded, non-branded keyword. These are long-tail, intentful inquiries To an agent to understand what is the best way to make [00:23:40] my life easier through these products. And what it returns is not just a simple indexed product PDP.

[00:23:46] Keith Lehman: It's a conversational response of you should probably check this out because customers have said this. The benefits of this product are stated as such. Get familiar with it because that's what's going to be required in your data. And so it's going [00:24:00] to structurally everything needs to be there. But it's going to stress how you talk about your products, the benefits, and the reasons that consumers should trust you and buy your product off the shelf.

[00:24:08] Suzy Davidkhanian: I love that, right? Put yourself in the consumer's shoes so that you understand how they're looking for products so that you can best meet that need.

[00:24:15] Sky Canaves: And the context that your product appears in and how they think about your product.

[00:24:19] Suzy Davidkhanian: I love it [00:24:20] all. I wish we could keep digging into this. Unfortunately, we can't, but I think you guys might be talking about this more at Future of Digital.

[00:24:26] Suzy Davidkhanian: So I can't wait to hear more about that. Thank you so much, Keith.

[00:24:29] Keith Lehman: Thank you, Suzy. Thank you, Sky. This has been fun.

[00:24:32] Suzy Davidkhanian: Yeah, thanks, Sky.

[00:24:33] Sky Canaves: Thanks, and I look forward to seeing you again in a few weeks.

[00:24:35] Keith Lehman: Sounds good.

[00:24:36] Suzy Davidkhanian: And thanks to our listeners and to our team that edits the podcast. Please leave a rating [00:24:40] or review, and remember to subscribe.

[00:24:42] Suzy Davidkhanian: I'll see you for more Reimagining Retail next Wednesday. And on Friday, join Marcus for another episode of Behind the Numbers, an EMARKETER podcast made possible by AWIN.