[00:00:00] Marcus Johnson: Hey, gang, it's Friday, May 29th. Emmy, Marissa, and listeners, welcome to Behind the Numbers, an EMARKETER podcast. I'm Marcus. And joining me for today's conversation, we have two New York-based analysts. One of them we refer to as Emmy Liederman.

[00:00:18] Emmy Liederman: Thank you that you ref- you refer to me that way. Yeah. But that's not who I am.

[00:00:21] Emmy Liederman: So names

[00:00:21] Marcus Johnson: check.

[00:00:22] Emmy Liederman: Yeah. Okay, awesome. Um- Well, you

[00:00:23] Marcus Johnson: can be that person, too.

[00:00:24] Emmy Liederman: Yeah. Thanks for having me.

[00:00:26] Marcus Johnson: Also joined, uh, by Marissa Jones, who I knew was [00:00:30] coming but no other- else- nobody else did.

[00:00:31] Marisa Jones: I like to be a little surprise. Thank you for having me.

[00:00:35] Marcus Johnson: Cool.

[00:00:35] Marisa Jones: Very mysterious. Yeah.

[00:00:36] Marcus Johnson: Sorry, production crew. Anyway, today's fact

[00:00:42] Marcus Johnson: The most spoken language in America after English and Spanish by state. What do you guys think is, uh, one of the most spoken languages? This is according to the US Census Bureau American Community Survey Data 2020 to 2024.

[00:00:57] Marisa Jones: By state?

[00:00:58] Marcus Johnson: Uh, you don't have to give me by state, [00:01:00] but you, uh, can just give me one you think is, uh, on top of the list.

[00:01:04] Marisa Jones: I would say Mandarin. Yeah.

[00:01:07] Marcus Johnson: They've just put Chine- Chinese, but yes. Nicolo Conte of Visual Capitalist explaining that Chinese is the top non-English, non-Spanish language in 13 states, including California, New York, and Georgia. Is there any other languages you think are widely spoken?

[00:01:24] Emmy Liederman: I wanna say French because they offered that in school, but I know that's probably not true.

[00:01:28] Marcus Johnson: French is, uh, yeah- Oh ... the [00:01:30] third most spoken language in- Mm-hmm ... Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, all the kind of near the French-Canadian border states. So there's a little pocket there.

[00:01:38] Marisa Jones: What about Arabic?

[00:01:39] Marcus Johnson: Arabic, a couple. Yeah, there are a couple of states where Arabic is the third-most spoken. It's interesting 'cause there are these little pockets around the country.

[00:01:46] Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm. So you've got this kind of, um, top right-hand corner near the French-Canadian border pocket of French. You've got, um, German, uh, third-most spoken language in Montana, Idaho- Ooh ... Wyoming, North Dakota, [00:02:00] and this is more than a century after kind of the peak German immigration. Mm-hmm. So, uh, yeah, it's a pocket up there.

[00:02:05] Marcus Johnson: Vietnamese, third-most spoken in Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas, that strip, uh, down the middle of America. And then, uh, Navajo in New Mexico and Arizona region as well.

[00:02:18] Emmy Liederman: Any Polish representation?

[00:02:19] Marcus Johnson: Oh, where I am, Illinois. Yes. Uh, the only state where it's third most spoken. Arabic is third most spoken in Tennessee, Virginia, [00:02:30] West Virginia, and Michigan, or as I like to refer it, to it, Michy.

[00:02:35] Emmy Liederman: Michy.

[00:02:36] Marcus Johnson: It's a nickname I'm working on. No one else says it.

[00:02:38] Emmy Liederman: Do you think people from Michigan call it Michy?

[00:02:41] Marcus Johnson: No, they hated it when I brought it up.

[00:02:42] Emmy Liederman: Right. Right, right.

[00:02:44] Marcus Johnson: Today's real topic, social media is quietly taking over your living room.

[00:02:54] Marcus Johnson: In December, Saleah Blancaflor of The Observer wrote that Instagram announced it was testing an Instagram for TV [00:03:00] app that lets users watch reels on their TVs. She also points out that TikTok previously had made a similar push with TV apps before they were discontinued due to compliance with new laws.

[00:03:10] Marcus Johnson: On the advertiser side, Pinterest recently acquired CTV ad-buying platform TVScientific, signaling the company believes ad dollars may start shifting toward living room viewing for its platform. Research for, uh, from Parks Associates suggests that the shift is already underway, as social video is now the second-most watched video type [00:03:30] on TVs.

[00:03:31] Marcus Johnson: Marissa, I'll start with you. What happens when social media doesn't just live on our phones and starts moving into traditional TV screens and living rooms?

[00:03:39] Marisa Jones: I think what naturally happens is the, in this situation is that the attention economy that we're seeing is already very fragmented, just fragments farther.

[00:03:48] Marisa Jones: When you're bringing social to CTV- Mm ... and splitting users' time there, uh, we forecast, I believe, that 96% of internet users are social media users. So that's obviously a huge audience that could migrate [00:04:00] to TV screens, or at least expand somewhat to TV screens. I do also think- Because of this fragmentation that really trickles down to advertisers, it would inevitably open up new ad models, sponsorship opportunities- Mm-hmm

[00:04:13] Marisa Jones: uh, creator monetization opportunities with things like Instagram, which we'll get into. But I also do think for advertisers it will include quite a bit of trial and error. Most of these platforms are not native to CTV. They haven't really tested CTV very heavily [00:04:30] in the past. So I do think it's gonna take some time until these really yield consistently strong results.

[00:04:38] Marcus Johnson: Yeah. They've been moving o- like, uh, in terms of viewers, YouTube viewers have already moved over to TV. Over 150 million Americans watch the platform on TVs. Americans now spend roughly equal time watching YouTube on TV and on their phones. Creators, they're already moving over to the big screen. Rissa, you had a, a really good piece recently where you pointed to a number of examples in 2024, MrBeast [00:05:00] partnering with Amazon Prime Video on Beast Games, Hulu debuting The Secret Lives of TikTok Star Mormon Wives, Miss Rachel signing a license deal with Netflix, et- et cetera.

[00:05:08] Marcus Johnson: So viewers are there. Creators are, are heading there. Uh, Emmy, what comes to mind for you when you think about social media migrating from the phone to the television?

[00:05:18] Emmy Liederman: Yeah. So I think about the fact that, um, so much of EMARKETER's forecasts is about breaking up advertising spend by channel and how much more complicated that gets-

[00:05:29] Emmy Liederman: [00:05:30] when we see that-

[00:05:31] Marcus Johnson: Yes ...

[00:05:31] Emmy Liederman: social media content is moving over to the big screen- Good luck forecasting TV ... in more abstract ways, like MrBeast having his own show, but also literally just, like, Instagram offering something to be able to watch, like, reels on CTV.

[00:05:45] Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm.

[00:05:46] Emmy Liederman: So I think that what comes from that is instead of just having conversations about, like, how much are you spending on CTV versus social versus any other marketing platform, it becomes more about, like, what are you looking for in [00:06:00] creators- Mm

[00:06:00] Emmy Liederman: and how do you find content alignment- Mm ... and how do you verify creator audiences? Because I think we can tell that so much content now, because all of these channels and platforms are blurring together, people don't much care about, like, the format. It's more about the person- Mm-hmm Your, the connection with the talent in- Mm-hmm

[00:06:19] Emmy Liederman: in that content. So I just think, um, the scrutiny that's applied to, like, what people look for in partners or in creators is, is gonna be [00:06:30] higher because of things like this.

[00:06:31] Marcus Johnson: Yeah, speaking about the blurring of lines, Jennifer Kent, SVP and Principal Analyst at Park Associates, said this quote, "Lines are blurring all over.

[00:06:39] Marcus Johnson: Everybody on the big screen wants to mimic what's happening on social media. Everyone on social media wants to be on the big screen." What do we end up with?

[00:06:46] Emmy Liederman: Yeah, it's hard. I, I watched an episode of The Kardashians, um, a few months ago. There we go. It's kinda just my mindless show, and in one of the scenes they were showing on...

[00:06:56] Emmy Liederman: They have a Hulu show, and they're showing on the Hulu show a clip of [00:07:00] them recording the podcast and also live streaming a segment of the podcast for social. And it is just- ... like, what do we make of this? Like, how do we kind of unravel this web of, like, everything is everything all the time- Yeah ... when it comes to content.

[00:07:18] Emmy Liederman: Um, and I think the news about Instagram moving to CTV, at first I was like, "This is, this doesn't make the most sense." But how did you feel about it?

[00:07:29] Marisa Jones: [00:07:30] Well, at first it kinda seems like it doesn't make the most sense, but at the same time, we've seen YouTube have so much success with Shorts- Mm-hmm ... on TV that it's like if Reels wants to position itself as a serious competitor, um, or better than YouTube Shorts, than TikTok, it kind of has to follow the moves that they're already succeeding with- Yeah

[00:07:48] Marisa Jones: and just do it better.

[00:07:49] Emmy Liederman: Yeah. Yeah. And I was also thinking about, like, the way that Instagram positioned it was, like, this is for, to make viewing a more social- activity- Yes ... which I think aligns with [00:08:00] this idea of especially younger generations wanting to get together in person more and, like, watch things together, and also the fact that we have such a high bar for personalization now because of social media.

[00:08:11] Emmy Liederman: Mm. Like, everything is so highly curated to us, so it just feels like- Yeah ... um, that, that level of personalization is maybe missing from CTV- Mm-hmm ... and we've gotten used to it on social.

[00:08:22] Marcus Johnson: So I wanna pick up on that for a second. Just to- so for folks, we talked about Instagram, um, for TV. Tog- Todd Spangler of Variety explaining the [00:08:30] end, end of last year Meta launched Instagram for TV app where reels plays automatically and is sorted into channels like for you, popular with friends, new music, sports highlights, things like that.

[00:08:38] Marcus Johnson: Users can add up to five accounts on the home screen and create a new account just for TV viewing. But how many people will actually want to use Instagram for TV, Mr. Spangler was asking. And so let's touch on what you said first, uh, Emmy, 'cause I thought this was interesting. And I think I know what they're going for.

[00:08:53] Marcus Johnson: Instagram is trying to make the app more social, especially for the television. Americans 15 to 24 years old spend 35% [00:09:00] less time socializing face-to-face than they did 20 years ago, according to The Atlantic. Um, so we've seen this trend of younger people not being face-to-face as much, Instagram recognizing that and saying, "Maybe we can make this more social."

[00:09:11] Marcus Johnson: However, Instagram is very personal, and the living room is often shared. So maybe Instagram for TV in your bedroom viewing works, but, uh, and Tessa Lyons, uh, who's the VP, uh, of products for Instagram saying, "We've seen a ton of demand from people on Instagram to watch reels on TV. We hear all the time people get together with their [00:09:30] friends to watch reels.

[00:09:30] Marcus Johnson: It's fun to connect with your friends about this stuff." However, Instagram says that it's gonna be, uh, for TV, is gonna be personalized for the individual based on content and creators you follow and you engage with. I can't imagine sitting down with friends and saying, "Check out my personalized everything."

[00:09:46] Emmy Liederman: It's hard. I feel like it's, it would be one of those things that's sort of like a funny 10-minute activity when you're hanging out with friends. Yeah. But it also just feels so vulnerable, but at the same time- Right ... I feel like that's kind [00:10:00] of the point. Like, I've definitely had a few times with my friends where we've done a screen sharing of someone's Hinge matches and just gone through the Hinge matches and, like, offered up how we feel about the people, which, you know, that's-

[00:10:13] Marcus Johnson: Full, full review

[00:10:14] Emmy Liederman: Yeah.

[00:10:15] Emmy Liederman: Yeah. So, but like it's, there's something about like sharing your phone screen, whether it's like your Hinge profile or your Instagram or your TikTok feed or something, like I think there is something there about like sharing your home screen and something that is like very personal to you- Right. Right

[00:10:29] Emmy Liederman: [00:10:30] with your friends.

[00:10:31] Marcus Johnson: But YouTube has seemed to, to figure this out, Marissa. Like, it, it's much more of a lean back experience, and obviously 'cause of the content on there. They're both social platforms, but one was more social networking, you can argue so- social entertainment, the other one more social media.

[00:10:45] Marcus Johnson: And so the other question I had here wa- w- is will folks want to navigate Instagram on TV the same as Netflix? Because our Grace Harmon explaining that the app's home screen features a personalized horizontal carousel of videos to browse, think Netflix, but basically the other way [00:11:00] around with the tiles.

[00:11:01] Marcus Johnson: Um, users can watch full portrait videos and view caption likes, shares, um, sha- and share stats, messages, also exploring features, use the phone as a remote, and enable shared feeds with friends. So I wonder if going for a similar style of app as a YouTube, as a Netflix is the way to go, whether they should break away from that mold and try something completely different.

[00:11:23] Marisa Jones: Yeah, I guess I just don't really know what they could do that is so drastically different from what these platforms are already [00:11:30] doing. In my mind, it's just going to be pretty much a replica of YouTube Shorts on TV. Yeah. Same purpose. I don't know that there's really anything super innovative that they could do to like the user interface that competitors aren't already doing.

[00:11:43] Marisa Jones: But I do think this is kind of a natural progression. They're trying to really capitalize on Reels, which is one of their highest value offerings right now. Yeah. Um, commands so much time spent on the platform, has been wildly successful with advertisers and creators and users. Um, and if they really wanna take [00:12:00] on a media company like YouTube, who's so huge, I think it is a natural progression.

[00:12:05] Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:06] Marisa Jones: It is something that I kind of question how they're really going to differentiate their offering.

[00:12:10] Marcus Johnson: To that point as well, Instagram would definitely like to make Reels work on television because of the ad opportunity. You can see from this chart on the screen, data from Tinuiti, Reels now makes up a fifth of Instagram's US ad impressions, growing from 13 to 21% share in just one year.

[00:12:26] Marcus Johnson: Story is obviously the biggest, 44%, Feed 31%, but [00:12:30] Reels now at 21%. Going back to Instagram VP of Product Tessa Lyons, she, she was suggesting the platform may need formats beyond short form video to capture TV audiences per, um, in case you missed it. What do we think she means by this?

[00:12:48] Emmy Liederman: Well, Marissa, I'm curious 'cause I know you covered, um, the YouTube upfronts this year- Mm

[00:12:53] Emmy Liederman: and they're focusing on the launch of stations. Yeah. And you saw that with- Mm ... Coachella TV where it's like a dedicated [00:13:00] page for a certain type of content or a cer- certain event. Do you see any of that sort of like series type content coming into Instagram?

[00:13:09] Marisa Jones: I actually do think what Instagram is considering would position it very closely to what YouTube is doing now.

[00:13:15] Marisa Jones: A lot of YouTube's new stations, they're doing creator led TV shows, which isn't super new, but it is, you know, um, a promising thing that a lot of companies are getting into now. Um, I do believe Tessa Lyons kind of hinted [00:13:30] that the next step for Instagram would be diversifying beyond short form and into long form CTV content to capture TV audiences.

[00:13:38] Marisa Jones: These would be creator led, popular creators that audiences are more interested in watching on the TV screen, and would obviously add to their short form s- strategy, but make it a much more direct competitor to YouTube.

[00:13:50] Marcus Johnson: Yeah.

[00:13:50] Marisa Jones: Um, especially with the channels, creator led channels that YouTube is now doing.

[00:13:54] Marisa Jones: I honestly don't know how Instagram, like long form content on the TV would work. [00:14:00] I can picture how Reels would work. I can't really picture fully how like long form TV content would work, especially 'cause it's not native to Instagram, but-

[00:14:07] Marcus Johnson: Do you think they'll follow a similar playbook as, um, TikTok and Tubi?

[00:14:12] Marcus Johnson: 'Cause Marissa, you, you had this article, basically it's will we see more social media kinda streaming platform partnerships. You were recently writing that TikTok partnering with Tubi to identify TikTok creators to spearhead original Tubi series opening new doors for marketers. You pointed out that Tubi already offers over 16,000 episodes created [00:14:30] by, uh, 200 creators.

[00:14:32] Marcus Johnson: Do you, could you see more partnerships there? To make this work

[00:14:35] Marisa Jones: I could see more partnerships there, but I could also see, like for Instagram, kind of a similar move where it's not necessarily you're watching Instagram creators on an Instagram app on the TV, but you're watching Instagram creators via partnerships with other- Yes

[00:14:49] Marisa Jones: streaming platforms- Yes ... that are now into long form TV, which is slightly different than YouTube, but the same the other competitors like TikTok are doing. So they really are kind of following a very similar playbook to who I would say are, [00:15:00] at least in short form, their biggest competitors.

[00:15:02] Marcus Johnson: Benefits for both parties as well.

[00:15:03] Marcus Johnson: According to YouGov data, Americans started watching a full show or film because of clips or memes they saw on social media. And second point here, 16 to 44-year-olds, social media is the second most common way to discover new TV shows and films behind only friends and family recommendations. Long form is, it's, it's more and more important to, to, to marketers, uh, particularly for [00:15:30] their social strategies.

[00:15:31] Marcus Johnson: This chart I found with data from, uh, PhotoShelter showing that marketers value long form content, uh, long form video, I should say, over eight out of 10 marketers considering long form video important to their social media strategies. That said, short form is still the most dominant format for social, uh, even among older folks.

[00:15:49] Marcus Johnson: According to recent YouGov data, Americans over 55 now spend more time each week watching short form video than watching films. So we've got this data from, [00:16:00] um, Nielsen. The gauge basically shows what people, what Americans are watching on their television screens. Um, in March, YouTube commanded 13.2% of Americans' TV time overall across not just streaming, across everything, uh, streaming broadcasts, cable, all that stuff.

[00:16:18] Marcus Johnson: No other social platform makes the list. Uh, and they list out, I think, about eight or nine different platforms. Emmy, I'll start with you. What does social app TV viewership, so- [00:16:30] Other apps people watching on televisions or even, and YouTube included. Uh, fast-forward five years, is, is it just YouTube taking over more and more share and, or are some of the other social platforms, apps gonna break into this space in terms of the time people spend on their televisions?

[00:16:46] Emmy Liederman: Yeah, I mean, my prediction is that YouTube is gonna just continue to take over share. I know in our forecasts, um, we talk about Instagram and Reddit being, um, the two platforms that are increasing in time spent right now. [00:17:00] Right. And Facebook is also kind of slowing down. TikTok is slowing down with its growth.

[00:17:04] Emmy Liederman: And I think, you know, it's one thing for Instagram to increase, like, time spent on the phone, and it's another for it to, to rival YouTube on CTV. And I think the only way that it could really have a chance of doing that, or one of the ways that it could w- is, would be to develop, like, a class of creators that call themselves Instagram creators.

[00:17:26] Emmy Liederman: Yeah. The same way that YouTube... Like, the term YouTuber was, like, [00:17:30] such an early creator economy term, but you think of a specific type of person, I think, when you think of a YouTube- Yeah ... YouTuber. Yeah. Yeah. Also, TikToker, again, sort of losing, losing its relevance, but I still think it is a term that people use, but Instagrammer is 100%, like, not something people say.

[00:17:49] Emmy Liederman: No.

[00:17:49] Marisa Jones: Yeah.

[00:17:49] Emmy Liederman: So it- It's a good take ... I think it just speaks to, like, m- creators don't really have a strong allegiance to Instagram as a platform, and it doesn't really have as strong of an identity, I think, [00:18:00] as it, when it comes to storytelling- Yeah ... despite people spending more time on it.

[00:18:04] Marisa Jones: Yeah.

[00:18:05] Emmy Liederman: So I think that is something that would have to change for them.

[00:18:08] Marisa Jones: Yep. Mm-hmm. Also, just kind of, like, going off the point about Instagram doesn't really have, like, a name or, like, a huge brand for what their creators are. There is also, like, I feel like a YouTuber can do only YouTube, only long-form YouTube content, and be known as a YouTuber and still be very popular.

[00:18:24] Marisa Jones: But a lot of Instagram creators we see are also on TikTok, are also posting the same content on YouTube [00:18:30] Shorts. So there isn't really, like you said, kind of an allegiance there- Yeah ... with Instagram alone.

[00:18:34] Emmy Liederman: Yeah, and there's so much that's up for grabs here. Yeah. Like, like- Um, Marisa and I talk about Love Island a lot as our show.

[00:18:42] Emmy Liederman: We do. Um, I think, which I think is on- USA? UK? Yeah. I mean, I've only seen USA. Have you, UK? I'm a

[00:18:46] Marisa Jones: lover of both. I actually prefer UK, not gonna lie. Yes. You- don't, oh, don't worry. I have knowledge on UK. Yes. We can talk later.

[00:18:52] Emmy Liederman: Wait, have you seen- We will ... any of it, Marcus?

[00:18:54] Marcus Johnson: My sister makes me every time I go home for the summer, and I hate her for it in the beginning, and then [00:19:00] get hooked rather quickly.

[00:19:01] Emmy Liederman: But do you find yourself tuning in for the whole thing? 'Cause it's, it's quite a commitment.

[00:19:05] Marcus Johnson: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, she makes me.

[00:19:07] Emmy Liederman: Okay. Sure, she makes you.

[00:19:08] Marcus Johnson: Got it. She does. She doesn't listen to this podcast. She, she won't know that I'm lying through my teeth right now.

[00:19:13] Emmy Liederman: Yeah, so I think it's... Is it on, they get, like, two day bre- two days of a break?

[00:19:18] Emmy Liederman: Like, it's on, like, five days a week? Yes.

[00:19:20] Marcus Johnson: Yeah.

[00:19:21] Emmy Liederman: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we had our ad buyer summit, EMARKETER's ad buyer summit last week, and an executive at NBC Universal, which owns Peacock, [00:19:30] which streams Love Island, was talking about, um, differentiating in connected TV, and he was, his quote was just all about that- Offering of, like, this show is gonna drop every, once every week is just, like, kind of losing its relevance as people have this, like, highly bingeable behavior when it comes to content, and that's why Love Island is such a money maker for them.

[00:19:54] Emmy Liederman: 'Cause it's, like, always on, it's always in the conversation. Mm-hmm. Like, you can, you can talk about it on [00:20:00] social and because it's on five nights a week, like, there's just always so much to say.

[00:20:04] Marcus Johnson: Yeah.

[00:20:04] Emmy Liederman: So I think that in the same way that CTV benefits from this, like, episodic, like, always-on content, Instagram needs to continue leaning into that.

[00:20:14] Marisa Jones: Mm-hmm.

[00:20:14] Marcus Johnson: Yeah. It might be on six nights. Ugh, why do I know this? Is

[00:20:17] Emmy Liederman: it six?

[00:20:18] Marisa Jones: No, it's five nights, and then they skip one night. Best Bits. And then, yeah, Unseen Bits is the- That's it ... six nights. That's it. Oh, don't worry, I know what it's called.

[00:20:26] Emmy Liederman: Yeah.

[00:20:26] Marcus Johnson: Oh, God, could skip that for sure. I always

[00:20:27] Emmy Liederman: skip it. People are always like, people are always like, [00:20:30] "I have a job.

[00:20:30] Emmy Liederman: What happened last" ... ... "this week on Love Island?" 'Cause it really is like another job.

[00:20:34] Marcus Johnson: I apparently don't have a job. Um-

[00:20:36] Emmy Liederman: Yeah. No, we don't- We don't have jobs.

[00:20:38] Marcus Johnson: So picking up on what you said, it's a really good point. It's picking up on what you said, Emmy, in terms of what the future looks like. I did a back of the napkin analysis, it's generous, uh, of what things might look like in five years time.

[00:20:48] Marcus Johnson: So a year and a half ago, YouTube had a 10.8% share, and so now they're 13.2, and so they've basically averaged 0.1% every single [00:21:00] month. They've added 0.1% share every single month. That would mean that they're on pace, if they kept that up, the growth that they've had the last 18 months, if they kept that up for the next five years, they would be on pace to reach about 19.2% in five years' time.

[00:21:12] Marcus Johnson: So approaching close to 20% of all Americans' TV time. I think that's on the cards. I think that's absolutely on the cards. Whether other, whether, whether Instagram or TikTok or whoever kind of makes a, um, an appearance and is able to get half a percent, a percent, which is nothing to sneeze at. You know, some of the [00:21:30] smaller platforms, um, Roku Channel, Pluto TV, like, they have a couple of percent each or so.

[00:21:35] Marcus Johnson: So it, it's definitely something to be 1% of all Americans' TV time. But that's what I was thinking. Marissa, any thoughts on what it might look like?

[00:21:43] Marisa Jones: I think my thoughts are kind of very similar to Emmy. I don't see YouTube losing its lead. I don't see it decreasing its lead. I see it continuing to increase its lead pretty consistently.

[00:21:53] Marisa Jones: Um, but I do think there could be a future where some of these platforms gain, [00:22:00] or at least all are on that board. Maybe it's a .5% share- Mm-hmm ... but it's still something. Um, especially- Yeah ... I guess because we're seeing a lot of social platforms do this. TikTok is also trying to come into the TV screen. So I do think- Yeah

[00:22:15] Marisa Jones: there's room for some of them to take share, but I don't think that share is gonna be coming from YouTube.

[00:22:20] Marcus Johnson: Yeah.

[00:22:20] Emmy Liederman: Yeah, and I think, um, another opportunity is subscription services- Mm-hmm ... are getting really expensive.

[00:22:25] Marisa Jones: Yeah.

[00:22:26] Emmy Liederman: And I know a [00:22:30] creator who became a podcaster who now has his podcast on Netflix, and there were rumors that his podcast would no longer be available on Spotify, and all of his fans were, like, freaking out being like, "Oh my gosh, am I gonna have to pay for a Netflix subscription?"

[00:22:44] Emmy Liederman: And I think this is a real, a real thing that is, would maybe work in the favor of Instagram- Yeah ... um, doing this, like, Instagram TV reels-

[00:22:55] Marcus Johnson: Yeah ...

[00:22:55] Emmy Liederman: reels, um, approach. And yeah, I think a lot of people are, are cutting [00:23:00] costs, and that's kind of really good news for TikTok and, and Instagram.

[00:23:03] Marcus Johnson: That pivots perfectly into this last point I wanted to make up, to, to make to wrap up the episode.

[00:23:08] Marcus Johnson: Creators and social platforms, they kind of need to move to TVs to capture this drifting attention because according to our forecast team, time spent on social media in the US has flattened out and is expected to start declining next year, um, across all of them. Uh, if you, if you kind of average them out across all of them.

[00:23:25] Marcus Johnson: However, Instagram, Reddit, you are seeing, you know, uh, slight increases. Others dragging that number [00:23:30] down. But on the whole, social media time by Americans, social media users, is, uh, is peaked this year about two hours, uh, and a minute, and is gonna tick down slightly next year by a minute or so. Subscription OTT and also fast services, uh, that's the, they're the only places that are seizing, um, any new minutes.

[00:23:49] Marcus Johnson: They're, they're only places where, uh, uh, Americans are spending more time, particularly the free services. Um, so yeah, I think that's a really good point, and a great one to end on. [00:24:00] Um, by you, not my point. That was also great. Anyway, that's all we've got time for, for today's episode. Thank you so much to my guests.

[00:24:05] Marcus Johnson: Thank you first to Emmy.

[00:24:07] Emmy Liederman: Thank you for having me. You're so modest.

[00:24:09] Marcus Johnson: Are they I try. Thank you to surprise guest for some, Marissa.

[00:24:14] Marisa Jones: Thank you. This was a fun one, so- It

[00:24:15] Marcus Johnson: was indeed ... I'm glad to be

[00:24:16] Marisa Jones: here.

[00:24:16] Marcus Johnson: Thank yous to the production crew, um, uh, who we have John and Mike, uh, for getting, uh, the gang set up in the studio, uh, even though they didn't realize one of them was coming.

[00:24:25] Marcus Johnson: And thank you to everyone for listening to, uh, Behind the Numbers: an EMARKETER Podcast. Remember to subscribe and follow to hear [00:24:30] about new content. We'll be back on Monday discussing Google reinventing search as OpenAI gets cleared for takeoff.