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Sara Lebow (00:00):

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(00:25):

Hello, listeners. Today is Wednesday, June 11th. Welcome to Behind the Numbers: Reimagining Retail, an EMARKETER Podcast made possible by Cint. This is the show where we talk about how retail collides with every part of our lives. I'm your host, Sara Lebow. Today's episode topic is one company's approach to D 2C. Before we jump into that, let's meet today's guests. Joining me for today's episode, we have podcast regular, one of our analysts, Sky Canaves. Hey, Sky.

Sky Canaves (00:58):

Hey, Sara. It's good to be back.

Sara Lebow (01:00):

Good to have you. And also joining us is a special guest. We have CEO and president of Eyebuydirect, Sunny Jiang. Hey, Sunny.

Sunny Jiang (01:08):

Hey, Sara. Glad to be here.

Sara Lebow (01:10):

Welcome to the pod. Yeah, happy to have you here. Okay, we're only on audio here so our listeners don't know this, but rest assured, Sky, Sunny, and I are all glasses wearers. So we're all prepared to talk about the topic of eyewear. D2C sales account for 5% of US retail sales, and D2C growth is outpacing the greater retail industry. Before we jump too deep into D2C, Sunny, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and about Eyebuydirect?

Sunny Jiang (01:39):

Yeah, sure, Sara. I'm Sunny Jiang, the CEO and the president of Eyebuydirect. I've been with Eyebuydirect for about 18 years, since 2007. My role has expanded from finance to operations marketing and the recent general management. At Eyebuydirect, we are on a mission to provide exceptional eyewear experiences from a diverse range of quality and fairly priced eyeglasses.

(02:10):

And we have thousands of styles on the website starting from the $6, and 80% of the products are eyeglasses and the rest is sunglasses. Right now we are serving the US market and Canada, as well as a bit in Europe and Australia.

Sara Lebow (02:27):

Great. Let's start with setting the stage for the eyewear industry specifically. Sunny, what do consumers care most about when they're buying glasses?

Sunny Jiang (02:36):

Yeah, so we consistently learn about the market trend and the consumer's behaviors as our brand D2C or digital players. And almost at the beginning, we noticed that consumers, they are wanting to spend more wisely and they want to know what's going on with the product from beginning to end. So this is one of the learnings. Of course, we are applying these learnings back to the work and to the market.

Sara Lebow (03:07):

I feel like glasses are a really high consideration purchase, but they're not necessarily as expensive as other high consideration purchases, like maybe a TV or something, which makes them unique depending on the pair you get, obviously.

Sky Canaves (03:22):

Right. I think they would fit into that sweet spot where consumers value price, but they're also looking at quality and really important is the style, that it's flattering to one's face. And that's been I think a top consideration for consumers. So they might look at that as well as the quality. They're putting it on their face, might be wearing it every day, so they want it to last. But if it's affordable enough for younger consumers that might want to have a wardrobe of eyeglasses or eyewear, then they will look for the more affordable options as well.

Sara Lebow (03:58):

Yeah, that makes sense. I want to jump into what you just said about wanting to make sure they look good on your face because Eyebuydirect operates for the most part without stores. I saw data from a survey that we at EMARKETER ran showing that the number one reason people may research online and then buy in stores is to see, touch, and try the product. So how does Eyebuydirect get consumers to convert without being able to see the glasses in real life?

Sunny Jiang (04:27):

So as mentioned since the beginning, Eyebuydirect has been heavily focusing on online. This digital model allows us to be really agile. So if you think about it, when we have an idea or concept, we can quickly execute on them and push them to the market and then to the consumers. In the following days, we will analyze and understand what was working, what was not, and from there we will optimize it for better shopping experience.

(04:56):

So this is really our dynamic circle to allow for consistent optimizations for shopping experience. And except for the agility, also the efficiency as our direct-to-consumer model. I'll be honest, operating most of the things online delivered us some cost savings, and we are able to pass the savings to consumers. This is also why we are providing thousands of styles on the website to choose from starting at $6.

Sara Lebow (05:31):

Yeah, I understand how being digital first can be really helpful, especially today where a certain shape of frame might blow up on a platform like TikTok and you want to be able to deliver on that frame maybe even the next day, but I've never bought glasses without trying them on first. How do you remedy that sort of desire?

Sunny Jiang (05:52):

Yeah, so that is also something we try solve. This is, as you said, Sara, for the new users. Every day on the website we have 70% of new users. A lot of people, they don't know how to shop when they're not able to physically try on the frames or glasses. So what we introduced in the recent years, and that is one of the most promising features on the website, that is the Virtual Try-On.

(06:22):

Virtual Try-On is the software that when you activate it and you open your camera, so the software will detect your motion, will recognize your face, and will estimate your pose. And from there, it will place the frames smoothly on your face. When you move your head from the left to the right, up and down, it follows you to allow you a vivid look and feel for yourself.

(06:48):

And of course, some of the people, they have different sizes. When you adjust your PD, for example, the frame size fitting on your face will be automatically adjusted.

Sara Lebow (07:00):

PD, if you're not a classic glasses buyer like myself, is pupil distance.

Sunny Jiang (07:04):

Pupil distance. Yes. Thank you, Sara. Yes.

Sara Lebow (07:08):

Sky, I know you write a lot about Virtual Try-On, not in eyewear, but just in general. How does this expand beyond eyewear as a strategy?

Sky Canaves (07:20):

Well, we're seeing Virtual Try-On taking off in a lot of different fashion categories. I think eyewear and the face might be a little more straightforward than say with apparel where you have to consider fabric and draping and all the different body sizes. Faces tend to be a lot more consistent. So it's actually one of the relatively easier use cases for AI Try-On. So we've seen a lot of advancements in AI and AR filters for beauty, for example, for the face. And so eyewear kind of fits in that space.

(07:55):

Now we're starting to see a lot more in other areas like clothing, but that's going to take a lot longer. And I think that the AI and AR filters for eyewear Virtual Try-On has become pretty well established over the last couple of years in particular. And especially when you're looking at lower cost options where a consumer might be developing a wardrobe of eyewear to go with their outfits and different moods, that's a lower consideration purchase, so it's more likely that they will be willing to purchase online rather than going in store.

(08:30):

I know. I too have bought my fancy expensive prescription eyeglasses in stores, but I often will buy sunglasses online because that's a lower cost purchase. I have many pairs of sunglasses I'm willing to try them on, and then there's a low friction part of making a return. If it's easy, if I know if it doesn't work out, I can return it with no big cost to me, I would they more willing to try that.

Sara Lebow (08:56):

I have to imagine that people are also much more comfortable with facial AR than they are with their body or even trying a couch in a room. I was in high school when Snapchat launched, and so I remember the first time I saw a face filter. That's something that I think people across age groups are used to doing for fun now, so it's definitely not a leap to use it for shopping the way it might be for something else.

Sunny Jiang (09:25):

Yeah, absolutely. Just so you know, to understand our customer's behavior on a website regarding the Virtual Try-On feature, so about 20% of the users that leverage this tool. But for this group of people, their conversion rate for the final transactions is doubling the people who didn't leverage it.

Sara Lebow (09:25):

Gotcha.

Sunny Jiang (09:48):

It is telling us how much is it helping to elevate the customers or to ease the customer's experience when they shop online.

Sara Lebow (09:58):

And are you using that data from what pairs they're trying on to target or keep those customers engaged? You said you had thousands of SKUs, which is great, but that can definitely create decision paralysis.

Sunny Jiang (10:10):

Yeah, absolutely. On the website, we total have over 4,000 styles for the frames and hundreds of lenses options to choose. But for the Virtual Try-On, it's almost 90% available, so which means that most of the frames are having a Virtual Try-On feature that you can interact with.

Sara Lebow (10:31):

Gotcha. And you guys do have a pop-up store right now. Is brick and mortar something that you're planning to expand on, or is that sort of just a marketing installation?

Sunny Jiang (10:41):

Yeah. As I say, we just mentioned, we are enjoying so much advantages as a digital player online. From the surveys, we heard from the customers about their willingness to have our physical touch base with the brand. And our first pop-up store opened about one year ago in California. Right now we're still very much under on the learning phase, but it is a great opportunity to inform us about the future decisions on the business model evolution.

Sara Lebow (11:21):

Yeah, I have to imagine that once again, the volume of SKUs there is a challenge as compared to other eyewear D2Cs.

Sunny Jiang (11:28):

Yeah.

Sara Lebow (11:29):

Okay, we've talked about AR. I want to move into another buzzwordy topic, AI. I attended the Lead Conference in New York earlier this month and the conference was mostly focused on D2C brands, and I was shocked to see that every single vendor it felt like offered some sort of AI product. Clearly D2Cs are engaging in using generative ai. How is Eyebuydirect doing that?

Sunny Jiang (11:52):

Yeah, that's a super interesting topic, and it is so hot recently, right? In a recent couple of years in Eyebuydirect, we identified the relevance between AI and our business model. And we set up our AI committee consists of the members from the UI/UX team, IT team, product and marketing team. These members, they're so fascinated, so passionate to research and use AI. They have led us as a company to initiative AI-oriented project by more than 70% in the past two years.

(12:30):

And one of the promising features as we discussed a little bit earlier, it was about a Virtual Try-On, but I'm also thinking of a very recent application on the website, that is the prescription scanner. Yeah, basically just a quick description about how it functions or works. So every consumer, when you come to shop online, you need a prescription from your optician to tell the details of your vision center.

(13:00):

And a lot of customers, they are challenged to upload or to translate the information from the document to the website. And this software allow people to... You just upload the paper to the website and the AI will automatically recognize the handwriting from the doctor, the image and the information there, and it will match that information from the paper to the form on our website.

Sara Lebow (13:27):

That's pretty cool. I have astigmatism in both eyes, so I have three different numbers going on under each eye there.

Sunny Jiang (13:35):

Absolutely. I encourage you to try, but here it is helping... Around since the launch about I think two, three months ago, it is rather a new feature, about 15% of the customers, they interact, they use this feature, but it is significantly contributing to the overall website revenue.

Sara Lebow (13:57):

Sky, how does this kind of thing compare with other D2C AI efforts that you're seeing right now?

Sky Canaves (14:04):

Well, a lot of D2C brands don't require that step of having to enter the prescription, the additional information. But then I think that's helping to remove friction, and then you can enhance loyalty because it's easy and the prescription will be there. It can be maybe easily updated and as the prescriptions get updated. And I think when you have customer data around an infrequently purchased product, then you can use AI to try to drive the longer term loyalty and customer lifetime value, which in the case of eyewear, prescription eyewear really can span a lifetime.

(14:41):

So some products are only purchased for a short period of time, but I think eyewear is one where as we age up, we may have more eyewear needs. For example, I'm now at the stage where I could use three pairs of three different prescriptions, one for my computer and work, one for reading, and one for driving. And then I might want another one with sunglasses, with tint as well.

(15:03):

So I think using the AI to meet consumer needs as they develop and then offer them the products that would be most suitable. As you say, if you have over 4,000 options, how do you look at the customer's history and then tailor recommendations and offerings and help them narrow it down to what they might actually be interested in or work best for them?

Sara Lebow (15:26):

Yeah, because I mean, if you're a D2C, there's two routes you can go. You can have super tailored, super limited product assortment that is really consistent with a particular brand, or you can have a really wide inexpensive or wide-ranging offering like Eyebuydirect has. Sunny, I'm curious, you guys have such similar names in terms of where they are. Sunny, I'm curious, so you have I would imagine a few kinds of shoppers.

(15:57):

You've talked about the consumers who view eyewear as a piece of fashion and they're probably buying a lot of products. Then there are probably people like me who really only wear one pair of glasses and will have that pair for several years. How do you get those consumers to convert and reengage before they necessarily have a new prescription or need more glasses?

Sunny Jiang (16:16):

So when they don't have our new prescription, of course, we encourage them to double check with their doctors. And on the website we also provided the options to have an appointment with the doctors. We are helping on that. But really once they are ready to shop on there browsing on a website experience the journey from the funnel to funnel. So we give them a lot of guidance, especially for new users.

(16:48):

As we said, 70% of the users on the website every day are new. So this group of people, they need a lot of instructions and the information updates they sent. So we have a bunch of videos to provide some help. And also during the campaigns or the marketing activities or the promotions, we consistently give the information.

(17:12):

For example, when you buy a pair of sunglasses and maybe in the IX process, we recommend you a pair of blue light blocking lenses and the sunglasses can be also paired with the transition lenses. I don't know whether everyone is familiar with the transition lenses. That is the instant color change lenses, which right now I'm wearing this transition. The new is the color. I don't know whether you see.

Sara Lebow (17:39):

No, they're fully clear right now.

Sunny Jiang (17:42):

Yeah, because I'm indoor, right?

Sara Lebow (17:43):

Yeah. Eyewear is weird because I know that I get essentially allotted a pair of glasses I can buy per year because it's so tied to insurance. So you have to know that some of your consumers can convert maybe once a year and be the company that they convert with.

Sunny Jiang (18:03):

Yeah, that is true. So insurance can be definitely our consideration. But first of all, what we do at the company is to... We're very actively working to incorporate some insurance providers. So hopefully this function will be ready in the near future so people can freely use their insurance. But even now they don't have it, we provide the invoice form for the reimbursement when you do that after when needed.

Sara Lebow (18:34):

And Sky, I have to imagine that there are lessons that other D2Cs can glean from that because a lot of health and wellness D2Cs must be working with HSA and FSA money as well.

Sky Canaves (18:45):

Yeah, that's an important area now for more brands to pay attention to, especially as consumers are more budget conscious and looking at how to maximize their dollars is when they can use, particularly in the health and wellness space, when they can use insurance dollars or pre-tax dollars through an HSA to pay for purchases. And then the brands should, through their platforms, make it easy to submit that information or make sure that their product catalog is lined up with the HSA rules and product categories that are allowed for payment in that method.

Sara Lebow (19:20):

At the risk of going on a full tangent, we won't, but that is almost a form of holiday spend or Q4 spend that we don't really consider. I feel like Q4...

Sky Canaves (19:31):

And into Q1 as well because there's usually that March deadline.

Sara Lebow (19:35):

Yeah.

Sunny Jiang (19:35):

Yeah, Q1 is also a very popular season for insurance.

Sara Lebow (19:39):

That makes sense. Everyone realizes they have this, maybe not everyone, but some people realize they have this money lying around that they have to spend, so you have to convert.

Sky Canaves (19:47):

And brands can target them that way. I think I've had some emails from brands where they market around February, March, "Don't forget, check if you have some money to spend and remember our products are eligible."

Sara Lebow (19:59):

Let's keep moving into our final topic for this episode. We're hitting all of the big topics today, the last of which is tariffs. Obviously we're talking about tariffs. Are you seeing tariffs impact your core consumers, Sunny?

Sunny Jiang (20:13):

Yeah. So at Eyebuydirect, we constantly observe and learn what's going on. Yes, it is true that the current situation is a bit tricky, but one of the biggest takeaways recently is that under such economic uncertainties, the value becomes even more essential. Here, it is helping us to restress our mission and the core values, that is to make a high quality and stylish eyewear accessible. It is putting us in a stronger position to meet the evolving customer needs.

Sara Lebow (20:49):

Do you find some consumers are upgrading? Are you seeing bifurcation there? Are you seeing everyone trade down?

Sunny Jiang (20:56):

Yes, so it's both, I would say. And recently, we are adjusting very thoughtfully about across the product, the services, deliverables center in the business or the platform. Very interestingly, we found that about half of our customers, they're upgrading from the previous purchases. They're showing our continuous trust with the brand. And this insight also help us to reach the right balance between the offerings and the budget-friendly options.

Sara Lebow (21:31):

Sky, is that consistent with what you've seen across retail?

Sky Canaves (21:34):

Yeah, I think among all this turmoil, there is a very heavy emphasis on value and saving money, which makes shoppers more open to trying new brands and retailers, but that also creates opportunity for those brands and retailers that have a very strong value offering to capture some of the share. Because if prices are increasing across the board, those that are more competitively priced and have better offerings, not just in terms of price, but the value with the quality factored in can really stand to benefit.

Sara Lebow (22:07):

Yeah, we just saw Dollar General earnings just came in and they actually did pretty well because of consumers trading down. I have to imagine consumers who maybe see Warby Parker or something similar as the cheap option might now be looking around to see if there's an even cheaper option available for eyewear. Okay, that is all we have time for today. Sunny, thank you so much for joining us.

Sunny Jiang (22:34):

Thank you for having me. It's my pleasure to be here.

Sara Lebow (22:37):

And thank you for being here, Sky.

Sky Canaves (22:39):

Thanks. Also, my pleasure.

Sara Lebow (22:41):

Thank you to our listeners and to our team that edits the podcast providing a clear vision of our podcast. Please leave a comment or review and remember to subscribe to the Behind the Numbers Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts. We'll be back next Wednesday with another episode of Reimagining Retail. And on Friday, join Marcus for another episode of Behind the Numbers: an EMARKETER Podcast made possible by Cint.