Atmosphere TV is the largest streaming TV platform purpose-built for shared, social spaces like bars, restaurants, gyms, and airports. Atmosphere TV is the creator of ChiveTV and 30+ mesmerizing, audio-optional channels that entertain over 150 million monthly viewers.

Built for business, made for fun. Atmosphere TV. Learn more.

Marcus Johnson: [00:00:00] Atmosphere TV is the largest streaming TV platform purpose-built for shared social spaces like restaurants, airports, gyms, bars, things like that. Atmosphere TV is the creator of Chive TV and 30, over 30 mesmerizing audio optional channels that entertain over 150 million monthly viewers. It's built for business, but it's made for fun.

Marcus Johnson: Atmosphere TV

Marcus Johnson: Hey gang, it's Monday, October 26th. Lindsay, Melissa, and listeners, welcome to Behind the Numbers, the marketing podcast made possible by Atmosphere TV. I'm Marcus, and joining me for today's conversation we have two folks calling north of Boston home, SVP and head of marketing at Atmosphere TV, Lindsay Sutton joins the show.

Lindsay Sutton: Hello.

Marcus Johnson: Welcome back. And, uh, based in South Boston, President... No, south of Boston. Different places. Different places. Uh, south of Boston, President of Sparks. I was close. President of Sparks, uh, Melissa Levy.

Melissa Levy: Hi there.

Marcus Johnson: Hello. Okay. [00:01:00] Man, that was co- Although there's a ri- apparently there's a rivalry, which... What happened to cause this?

Marcus Johnson: Is it just between you two, or is this an actual thing? No,

Lindsay Sutton: it's, it's like- All right ... Jets and Sharks, kind of-

Marcus Johnson: Wow ...

Lindsay Sutton: kind of thing, Marcus. Yeah.

Marcus Johnson: Okay. There's, there's- But don't you come together over the Celtics?

Lindsay Sutton: We do.

Marcus Johnson: Okay. We do. Then that's fine.

Lindsay Sutton: Okay. Yeah.

Marcus Johnson: Uh, bridged that gap. Anyway, when, whenever we have special guests on, we start, of course, with a speed intro.

Marcus Johnson: Okay. Um, Lindsay, first to you and then Melissa. What do you, uh, what does your company do, in a sentence, and what do you do for them in another?

Lindsay Sutton: Perfect. Atmosphere TV is an entertainment company. So we make content for shared spaces. So think bars, restaurants, gyms, et cetera. Any place where you're convening, you would see 30-plus channels of awesome, fun, mesmerizing content from us.

Lindsay Sutton: And I am in charge of the brand. So I make sure that our brand shows up in the real world in a really fun and interesting way.

Marcus Johnson: Very nice. Melissa, how about you?

Melissa Levy: So I am the president of Sparks, [00:02:00] and Sparks is a leading global experiential marketing agency, and we help the world's largest brands show up in real life, uh, with strategy, creative, flawless execution.

Melissa Levy: So end to end.

Marcus Johnson: Very nice. And what do you do for them? What's your title?

Melissa Levy: So I'm the president. Mm-hmm. I'm the president, so my job is to make sure we deliver flawlessly for our clients, day in and day out.

Marcus Johnson: Very nice. Uh, second question. Lindsay, you first. What's the most interesting thing you've read, watched, or listened to recently?

Lindsay Sutton: I couldn't pick one, so don't-

Marcus Johnson: Oh ...

Lindsay Sutton: prescribe yet, everybody

Marcus Johnson: Broke the rules already.

Lindsay Sutton: I did. I had to. So I, 'cause one is awful. Sterling Point, Amazon Prime. Mm-hmm. If you haven't done it, I feel like I'm a 17-year-old, and it's so good. But then my business one for all those- Okay ... li- listeners is my friend wrote a book, and I've had my- Ooh

Lindsay Sutton: whole team is reading it. It is called Unrivaled by Michelle Heath, and it is all about becoming an unrivaled brand. And she is literally coming to our team meeting tomorrow to talk about it with us. And so- Amazing ... that [00:03:00] is what you gotta read.

Marcus Johnson: Cool. Great rec. Um, Melissa?

Melissa Levy: Oh, that's awesome. That's hard, hard to match.

Melissa Levy: But, um, from a pop culture perspective, for sure, Widow's Bay. It, it's, it's still... I finished it last week, and it's still stuck in my brain. Okay. I can't figure out is it a comedy, is it a horror movie? What is it? It's- Yeah ... it's fascinating to me.

Marcus Johnson: I've heard of none of the things that you've both just said.

Marcus Johnson: I'm so out of touch. Painful. Um, but I've got some things to look into. Uh, very nice. Well, they are our two guests for today's episode and today's real topic.

Marcus Johnson: The next marketing battleground being real life. Um, so we do everything on our phones. Uh, no one will be surprised to learn, work, shop, socialize, discover brands, um, build communities, experience events, uh, without looking up. But it certainly feels as though something is shifting and people want, uh, to be around other people again.

Marcus Johnson: Uh, not because they've said goodbye to digital, still very much a thing, [00:04:00] just because after years of scrolling- Mm-hmm ... uh, they've, uh, got a renewed appetite for something that doesn't involve the phone. Going somewhere, holding something, trying something, meeting someone, discovering a brand outside. Um, couple of interesting stats to, to highlight this point.

Marcus Johnson: 78% of Americans explicitly stated that they prefer an in-person social existence to a digital-only lifestyle. According to the Harris Poll, 76% of consumers, uh, and even more young people report that physical real-world experiences help them connect much more deeply with people and brands. Uh, Lindsay, I'll start with you for this first one.

Marcus Johnson: Why is real life becoming marketing's next big frontier?

Lindsay Sutton: So maybe this is a hot take on how you ask the question, but I don't know if it's the next frontier. I think it's always been one of our frontiers. Yeah. It just has ebbed and flowed over time, right? So there has been, obviously there's no, I don't know, we can't talk about this without talking about COVID, right?

Lindsay Sutton: So I feel like at a time, right, we really, really retracted. That was the only thing that we can do, and so that's just a plot on the, the [00:05:00] map, if you will, of a time when we really, really couldn't get out. So now more than ever, we crave it, but we also crave it because I do think brands, sports teams, et cetera, are showing up in a much bigger way than they were before because we're all back out there.

Lindsay Sutton: So again, I don't feel like it's totally that it's n- the next big thing. It is definitely something that I think, and when you think of a brand and the media plans that you make, it, it has taken a backseat for years for some consumer brands, but for others, no, it's been a big part of what they are and who they, honestly, and how they reach people, rather.

Lindsay Sutton: So I, again, I think it's more so that we're looking at these trends, like you said, Marcus, people joining run clubs and wanting to get out and really kind of feeling and living life versus passively accepting life through digital devices. And now with that, brands are getting, uh, smarter, right? They're thinking about their budgets in more distinct buckets, and really the crossover from [00:06:00] silo to silo.

Lindsay Sutton: Before it was like, "No way." Those t- Mm-hmm ... the two things were so distinct, and now I really think it's become more of a cross-silo media situation than ever before.

Melissa Levy: Yeah, I was gonna say, I would agree with Lindsay. It, it's always been here, but when you frame it from a marketing perspective, too, right? So real world, real life events have been around forever, particularly in the B2B space.

Melissa Levy: I think there have been these events, places for people to convene, trade shows, exhibits, larger, you know, product launches, that have always been around. They just haven't always sat in the marketing budget. And I think if you combine that with what's happened post-COVID, people wanting to get back together, as well as the fragmentation of media and channels, you're seeing a lot of marketers now try to figure out where audiences are, and they're increasingly turning to real life and experiences to, to connect with their prospects and their customers.

Lindsay Sutton: I do think also there's been tried and true platforms [00:07:00] digitally that we as consumers are tired of, and honestly, marketers and media planners are tired of, right? So I feel like, again, not to pick on the big guys 'cause I'm a small guy, so the, the Metas and the Googles of the world- It, yes, it, it's block and tackle now.

Lindsay Sutton: Before, you used to be able to go to those types of platforms and do first best only type creative executions. You cannot do that without an extreme price tag anymore. So if you're thinking about ways to reach people- Mm ... you are, yes, it might be complemented in those spaces, but you're actually looking to those, I would say, unconventional feels like a funny word to use, even if it's content or experiential, but often those are the ones that h- hold less budget in the consumer world.

Lindsay Sutton: Yeah. So I do think we're, we're tiring of some of our platforms. We're looking for other ways to reach people because consumers are also tiring of them.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. The pandemic's interesting because it's called COVID-19, uh, because that's when it kind of was officially kind of [00:08:00] labeled, 2019. But, and it feels a long time ago, and also kind of yesterday, so that's the bit of cognitive dissonance there.

Marcus Johnson: They formally announced the, the emergency response over- the emergency response being over i, in May of 2023, and so that was just three years ago. And so it seems like, hey, yeah, of course, like we should be out and what, but this was very recently this thing happened, and only very recently that people w- w- said to themselves, "Okay, this thing is over.

Marcus Johnson: Maybe I can try and resorm," uh, sorry, "resume a normal life." There were a couple of numbers I thought were quite interesting that, uh, we've seen drive us towards more analog hobbies, people getting out and wanting to touch and, and, and see things in the real world, people buying more records than ever. US vinyl sales crossed the $1 billion mark in 2025, uh, dollars, um, for the first time since 1987, now accounting for 9% of music sales.

Marcus Johnson: That's double pre-pandemic 2019. And then independent bookstores making a comeback. Number of independent bookstores in the US skyrocketing [00:09:00] by nearly 70% in the past five years according to the American Booksellers Association. It's just a few examples of how people want to be out in the real world again.

Marcus Johnson: Melissa, what, what does it mean for brands to return to the real world?

Melissa Levy: I think those were great examples, right? 'Cause when you, when you talk about both of those things, both music and books help you feel something, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I think we're getting so desensitized to being online, to staring at our screens, doom scrolling.

Melissa Levy: Like, it's, it's really hard to make a connection. So what you're seeing are people craving in-person experiences. They're craving being around other people or feeling or doing something that brings meaning back into their lives. So I think brands are seeing that, and you're seeing at the same time, Lindsay mentioned, mentioned there's a rise in sports.

Melissa Levy: We're trying to find these places where we feel community again. Live sports have always been around, but now they, they are, they're back, if you will, as a place where in a very divided world right this second, you come together around a shared experience. [00:10:00] So you're seeing that through music, you're seeing that through sports.

Melissa Levy: You're seeing that in any place that we can get together to share something, and people are really, really wanting to be there. And brands are saying, "Well, how do I get a piece of that? How do I get a part of that? And, and not only can I show up, but more importantly, how do I create a strategy to actually connect with a consumer, not just advertise to them, not just put out a message, but really, really make a connection?"

Melissa Levy: It's, it's the- Yeah ... old school brand, brand love, if you will. How do you create that? Yeah.

Marcus Johnson: There's some gr- some great thoughts there. Feeling something, community- Mm-hmm ... shared experience. L- Lindsay, there was some, um, material you guys shared before the episode from, from Atmosphere TV, uh, and one of the quotes was, "What does it take to move from simply reaching people to actually adding value to the experience?"

Marcus Johnson: Which I thought, uh, was a really good way or, or a good question, a good way of looking at it. What, what, uh, stands out to you when you think about brands returning to the real world?

Lindsay Sutton: Yeah. Well, a couple of things that you said, actually, and what you just said, Melissa, too, which is that [00:11:00] even the, the piece about community is so big, right?

Lindsay Sutton: We're in a divided world, that is huge. And so the idea of that you wanna be additive to a space that you're convening in, you have to have some sort of value exchange. It can't feel like a one-way street. So I think when brands do it right, it's because they create that exchange with other folks. It isn't just delivering, delivering, but it is really kind of extracting both the good of the community with what they can offer as a brand.

Lindsay Sutton: And I do think what's really interesting, too, about the record sales and the book sales, although my, my dad ran an independent bookstore for 25 years, so I feel like I need to shout him out with that stat, Marcus- Amazing ... so that's so great. But on the record store front, which is specifically Gen Z, and I think a little bit younger millennial, a little bit older Gen Alpha, they're nostalgic for a past that they never lived.

Lindsay Sutton: Yeah. So brands actually now showing up in real, real life is a big part of that because we, as an elder millennial, we didn't have that connection. I didn't have Facebook [00:12:00] until after college. I didn't h- I had a home sort of computer. I don't even know what that was. Um, but that type of thing didn't exist, and so now you're seeing the, the flip phones coming back.

Lindsay Sutton: I'm not talking about the new one, but the real, real OG- Mm-hmm ... flip phones. You're seeing that- Yeah ... and they're craving the, the combination of real life and that very sort of basic digital, so brands, again, leaning into that. There are brands that have done that really well. You look at Gap bringing back the scents Grass and all those- Mm-hmm

Lindsay Sutton: types of things where they have nailed it, right? They're bringing it back at the right time, and then how they're showing up in culture, which is different. You can show up in culture and not in real life. You can show up in, you know, in real life and not in culture. I think there are brands that- Yeah ... do it well are doing both of those things because there is such an importance of living within culture in real life that makes it realer than just that digital exchange.

Melissa Levy: It was, we saw this, this great example where we were just at Fanatics Fest in New York. Cool. I don't know if you've ever [00:13:00] been at, at their fan fest, but it's a whole sporting ... You know, you come, you come there to be part of culture, to be part of the sports culture and a fan culture, and you have all these brands underneath one roof in the Javits Center.

Melissa Levy: And we were working with DICK'S Sporting Goods as an example, and it wasn't just a place that DICK'S showed up, right, and, and put, you know, sold things. They created these experiences, these cultural places. They brought in celebrities, ways for people to connect with the brand and the culture of being a fan, of participating in something, and to, to co-create, if you will, with their fans and their audiences.

Melissa Levy: And we saw it across the show. It was unbelievable to just watch multi-generations- Mm ... look at trading cards in the basement versus having these big, uh, you know, celebrity experiences upstairs. It was quite something.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah.

Lindsay Sutton: Participation is the word that I think is so great in what you just said because it's the type of thing where it, like you think of the early days of social media too, which is honestly how I have the job that I [00:14:00] have.

Lindsay Sutton: Mm. I entered the workforce as social became a thing. You look to the youngest person, and you were like, "You can figure that out," and you did it. But r- I remember very distinctly user-generated content being a thing, and it was this one- Mm ... way display of you wanting to get your community out. The problem with it, we didn't know it then, was that there, there wasn't participation.

Lindsay Sutton: I submitted something, and I never got anything in return. And what you were saying about the example of the trading cards in the basement or bringing out social influencers in real life, celebrities who have big followings in real life, it makes participation feel surround sound. Mm. It's not just the digital- Yeah

Lindsay Sutton: piece of it, but it's also that you actually experienced it. And so when I think of brands participating in the real world, they, they can't ignore that piece because I as a consumer, not as a marketer, am so hungry for that participation.

Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm. Um, another quote from Atmosphere TV, "How can brands become part of the environments people already enjoy rather than interrupting or manufacturing [00:15:00] an experience?"

Marcus Johnson: Um, which I thought was, uh, yeah, a really good way of, of looking at it. Um, B2B brands have long comprehended the value of bringing folks together through events, experiences, relationship building, things like that. Uh, Melissa, what can B2C learn, in your opinion, from B2B?

Melissa Levy: I think what was, what's always been smart about B2B is they, they've had a strategy for why they were bringing people together.

Melissa Levy: They were really smart. Even if you go all the way back to, like, exhibit booths or trade shows, right? They were a place for people to sample their products, to get their hands on something new, to meet with customers. And then I think you've seen it evolve to some of our biggest technology partners that are doing, you know, a Google I/O or a Salesforce Dreamforce, something like that, where they're creating entire environments that talk to different audiences.

Melissa Levy: They talk to developers, they talk to prospects, they talk to people that wanna get their hands on the product and be [00:16:00] part of a brand. So B2B has actually started to create a roadmap, I think, for B2C in a little bit of a fandom way as well. And so I'd start, one, with the strategy. I think B2C is getting smarter at understanding we need to have a strategy for connection for pr- part- participation, excuse me, and understand h- what you're s- what the goals are that you're setting out to do.

Melissa Levy: 'Cause where I think B2C used to get it wrong is they would do a pop-up in isolation and not have a strategy, a measurement plan, KPIs to be able to see, is that investment worth it? But I think you're starting to see some brands really weave this into the fabric with a strategy, with an audience strategy, with a multi-year approach- Mm-hmm

Melissa Levy: and then being really particular about what it is they're trying to accomplish and how they're measuring it. And we, we just did some work with Michelob ULTRA for their, um, their partnership they did with the Olympics. And they're so smart, right? Their product is really designed, uh, for [00:17:00] athletic people, people that wanna have a low-carb drink, if you will.

Melissa Levy: And where are the places and spaces where people are already out there, as Lindsay was saying, participating where they are in real life, where they're engaging, and then how do you insert the brand there, and then what are you measuring? You know, you're measuring your participation in culture. You can actually also measure beer sales.

Melissa Levy: But, you know, that, that at the end of the day, if you look, they're one of the largest beer, uh, brands in the, the country, and if not number one. Like, what they're doing is working 'cause they're connecting with their consumers on a one-to-one level. And so I think they're taking a page of, from what the B2B brands are doing.

Lindsay Sutton: I think that they do it right. You know, it's not just- Yeah ... that they're in real life, but they have figured out the whole ecosystem, and that's also what makes it really, really impactful. Mm-hmm. So whether I'm, you know, watching a show that they're part of, whether I'm at a bar and they're on Atmosphere TV, um, shameless plug of course.

Lindsay Sutton: But it's, it's really, it, it's quite important I think as a consumer because I think the one thing that hasn't [00:18:00] changed and potentially even got even, you know, more clear after COVID is like consumers are really discerning, right? Mm-hmm. We want to experience it. We're not so, um, I don't know, we're not like, "Oh we hate ad-" I mean, people are gonna say that they hate ads and all those types of things.

Lindsay Sutton: But we're a little bit more welcoming as a group now. Yep. We know what's different. We're a little bit more overt with it. But the idea that a brand shows up for us- Mm-hmm ... is an important part of this.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Um, what needs to change for, for, for the shared physical environments to be considered a core part of the media mix, and, and who owns this opportunity or should own the opportunity today?

Lindsay Sutton: I would say, I mean, a couple of things probably need to change. Mm. I think we need to conti- I think we, we preach this, but we don't practice this as marketers. We talk about human-centered design of work. We talk about the customer being at the center of whatever experience it is that we're building. But inevitably, we create chapters in a media tactical, and we have distinct budgets for each of those chapters, whether it be social, video, CTV, et cetera.[00:19:00]

Lindsay Sutton: I, what needs to change is that holistic view and that approach at the top and at the bottom, depending on who's making these plans. It has to continue to evolve around the best thing we can do for that consumer prospect, whatever it is. And so there has to be a fundamental shift potentially in how the budgets are distributed.

Lindsay Sutton: I don't think I alone or Melissa alone are gonna be able to change that. But if we can strategically map a plan that keeps them at the center, then you are gonna start to build the right tactics around them versus falling into the old norms of always saying, "This much for social, this much- Mm-hmm ... for digital," et cetera.

Lindsay Sutton: So I- I'd say that just keeping it really centered on the human is the first thing that we can do, and I used this term earlier, but if there was a way that I could introduce a new term, it would be cross-silo media because that, if there was a person that owned that in a media [00:20:00] tactical- Mm-hmm ... that's the person I could go and talk to- Yeah

Lindsay Sutton: to sell my product. That's the person that might be thinking holistically across all channels outside of just a strategist that might be assigned to that piece of work or business.

Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm.

Melissa Levy: Yeah, I mean, I think Lindsay and I share some of the same challenges even though we work in different types of worlds, if you will.

Melissa Levy: And that is oftentimes when it comes to experiential, it sits in the PR budget, or it sits under an events budget, but it doesn't sit in the core marketing budget because it either comes as an afterthought or tacked on to a creative strategy where, "Oh, we're gonna do a pop-up here." It's not thought of as part of the core communications plan.

Melissa Levy: Mm-hmm. It often sits outside of even the CMO's budget. And so I think it's very important that as people are thinking about their strategy from day one, where are their audiences, where are their prospects, who are they trying to reach, and where does real-life experiences, where does being in the real [00:21:00] world fit into that?

Melissa Levy: That needs to happen way further upstream, and it can't just be allocated the events budget, if you will, because that's the first thing that gets chopped, right? People think you can pull off an event- Right ... you know, for, for a nickel. Mm-hmm. And it's just not true. If you want to truly create brand connections with your clients, prospects, um, you need to really put the time and energy and, and frankly, a budget against it, and make sure that it is part of your media plan and that you're measuring it.

Lindsay Sutton: And I think events and in real life stuff- Mm-hmm ... become a byproduct of a campaign versus being the start of something. Mm-hmm. And that is inherently the problem, in my opinion. It's not right for every brand. It's not right for every- Right ... campaign at all. But if it's a byproduct of it, then yeah, you're, you're throwing a nickel to create something-

Lindsay Sutton: and it's, it's nothing to write home about or nothing to post on social about. Right. So if I love, Melissa, what you said about being further upstream, 'cause that's true whether it's the holistic [00:22:00] campaign, whether it, you know, whatever it is in terms of budget dissemination, et cetera. The farther you can go up, then you can make the right decision that says, "Is this right to deliver on the objective we have?"

Lindsay Sutton: Versus, "Oh my gosh, now we've got to this point, now we need to throw an experiential moment in."

Marcus Johnson: Yeah.

Melissa Levy: I, I th- I think, Marcus, the other thing people don't quite or they're catching up on- Mm ... is these in real life experiences are generating content, right? I mean, everybody's looking at influencers- Yeah ... and they're a huge part of the media plan these days.

Melissa Levy: But when you look at how LLMs are, are sourcing information, they're sourcing it from places outside of the brand, right? So I really do think events showing up in real life has to be part of your content strategy from day one. Mm-hmm. And that's not something I think everybody, everybody's thinking of yet.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Um, Melissa, to you first. L- Last question here. What does the future of branded tension look like?

Melissa Levy: Gosh, that's such a hard one, right? But I, I think it's ... [00:23:00] Attention really shifts from, from captured to earned. How are we earning the attention of our prospects- Mm ... and of our, um, customers, right? It's not really about impressions, it's about creating deeper connections, and that, that can be hard to measure- Yeah

Melissa Levy: right? But I think we have to get better at that. It also becomes shared, right? We talked about the communal moments. We have to make sure that as we're thinking about brand attention, that we're thinking beyond just the, the ways that we're measuring it today, right? How do you bring the physical moments together and amplify them digitally?

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Uh, Lindsay, last word.

Lindsay Sutton: Yeah, man, I agree with all of that. I would just say, like, further underscore that brand attention really looks like real moments and real experiences. Without that, and, and I know Melissa mentioned it earlier about the idea of measuring or, or valuing brand love, the way that brand love is achieved is because of that realness, and realness doesn't always mean in real life.

Lindsay Sutton: It also means the authen- [00:24:00] you know, being authentic as a brand, sh- showing that you're trustworthy, et cetera. But that realness and that human-led factor- Mm-hmm ... to me is where brand attention s- you know, honestly goes off the char- charts.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Um, all right. Time for a couple of key takeaways. I think, uh, the in real life moments part of this, really important, uh, needs to be part of the strategy of any campaign and program.

Marcus Johnson: Uh, number two, planning holistically. Never been more important, uh, been more crucial, so you don't get trapped in buckets. And then lastly, prioritizing meaningful human connections, especially in a world where people are craving genuine connection. Uh, now more than ever it would seem, and one could argue.

Marcus Johnson: That's all we've got time for for this episode. Thank you so much to my guests. Thank you first to Lindsay.

Lindsay Sutton: Thank you so much, it was a pleasure.

Marcus Johnson: Yes, indeed. Thank you to Melissa.

Melissa Levy: It was so much fun. Thank you.

Marcus Johnson: Yes, thank you, thank you. Thanks to the production crew, uh, Lance, Stewart, I think Luigi's also on this one.

Marcus Johnson: Uh, if he's not, then take his name out. I don't want him getting extra credit for no reason. Uh, thanks to everyone for listening in to Behind the Numbers: EMARKETER Podcast, made [00:25:00] possible by Atmosphere TV. Uh, tune in Wednesday to hang out with, uh, Suzy and the folks on the Reimagining Retail show for the October Halloween-themed retailer awards.

Marcus Johnson: I'll be back on Friday discussing the digital lives and lifestyles of everyone in the world.