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[00:00:27] Marcus Johnson: Hey, gang. It's Monday, June 8th. Rajiv, Beth, and listeners, welcome to Behind the Numbers, an eMarketer podcast made possible by Rocks. I'm Marcus, and joining me for today's conversation we have two of our healthcare and pharma marketing experts. Uh, we're joined by, uh, senior analyst Rajiv Leventhal.

[00:00:45] Rajiv Leventhal: Hey, Marcus.

[00:00:46] Rajiv Leventhal: Thanks for having me.

[00:00:47] Marcus Johnson: Yes, indeed. And we're also joined by senior analyst Beth Snider Bullock.

[00:00:51] Beth Snyder Bulik: Hey, Marcus. Hello. Thanks

[00:00:53] Marcus Johnson: for

[00:00:53] Beth Snyder Bulik: having me.

[00:00:53] Marcus Johnson: Why, of course. Uh, today's fact.

[00:01:00] Marcus Johnson: Okay, this one does not seem real at all and I know after I say it you're gonna be like, "Oh, I'm gonna Google it myself." Fine

[00:01:07] Rajiv Leventhal: Mm-hmm

[00:01:08] Marcus Johnson: I don't blame you . The word muscle, do you guys know where this word came from? It's like every word, which when I say it, you're like, "Of course it came from Latin." But it comes from the Latin term meaning little mouse.

[00:01:22] Marcus Johnson: National Geographic noting that ancient Romans thought that's what a flexed bicep muscle resembled, a little mouse underneath y- like the skin in your arm. And so that's where it's the n- it's musculus is the term, a Latin word for little mouse. Kind of horrible to think about.

[00:01:45] Rajiv Leventhal: Well, it st- dovetails nicely with our wellness conversation at least.

[00:01:48] Rajiv Leventhal: I

[00:01:48] Marcus Johnson: know. Ah. This is a tough one. Today's real topic: shopping for better health and wellness

[00:02:01] Marcus Johnson: Uh, all right, let's jump right into it, guys. Um, Rajiv, I'll start with you. What does wellness mean to Americans today? I feel like if you ask 100 people, it's 101 different answers. But what, what does it mean to you?

[00:02:12] Rajiv Leventhal: That's probably right because wellness obviously isn't a new term or anything, but it is a new, new trend, and at least the way people think about it is, is new.

[00:02:21] Rajiv Leventhal: Um, because w- w- what I think of wellness and in the research I did for my report, uh, I was trying to, uh, frame it in term- I was trying to frame it, uh, as something that exists, uh, supplementary to, to traditional medical care because wellness isn't healthcare or medical care, and it's not really even trying not to be sick or trying not to have a disease, right?

[00:02:44] Rajiv Leventhal: It's, it's evolved into a much broader concept, I'd say, that combines physical health and mental health and emotional balance and lifestyle habits and longevity and, um, you know, drilling down, that could be in the form of taking vitamins or, and supplements and, and, or, or wearing a wearable or making healthier nutrition choices, like protein is, is all the rage over the last year or so it seems.

[00:03:09] Rajiv Leventhal: Uh, buying over-the-counter health products, um, and, and medications and even, you know, kinda elite luxury-type items or services like travel retreats where people engage in yoga and meditation and, and- Yeah ... some sort of fitness athletic training. So kinda, kinda that scope is, is how I think about wellness today.

[00:03:30] Marcus Johnson: So everything.

[00:03:32] Rajiv Leventhal: Yeah. That's a lot, isn't it? It's funny, I, I saw an article a couple of weeks ago saying like, "We- wellness is anything or, or can be everything." I was like, "Well, that pretty much correctly- ... encapsulates what, what wellness is."

[00:03:44] Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Um-

[00:03:45] Beth Snyder Bulik: Yeah, I've seen some studies say like, "Wellness is how you feel, when you feel, you know, how you feel about yourself, how happy you are."

[00:03:51] Beth Snyder Bulik: I'm like, okay. Yeah. This, we're really- It's so broad, right?

[00:03:54] Marcus Johnson: Uh-huh. Um, it's like the word vibe. I hate that word.

[00:04:00] Rajiv Leventhal: Yeah.

[00:04:00] Marcus Johnson: Yeah, it's- Wellness

[00:04:01] Beth Snyder Bulik: is a vibe.

[00:04:02] Marcus Johnson: It means everything- Wellness is a vibe ... and not nothing at all. Um, I like the way you phrased it there in your research. You say, "Wellness, health and wellness means things, products and services folks choose to better improve their health, not necessarily required, uh, to treat a medical condition."

[00:04:20] Marcus Johnson: Um, it's a big space. Uh, there's a Bank of America article, um, I don't normally read articles from Bank of America, but they had this piece of research. A- and they were citing, um, uh, was it the Global Wellness Institute? They were saying the US wellness economy is valued at around $2 trillion, largest in the world, and they were saying with a population of 340 million people, that works out to approximately $6,000 per person in annual wellness spending.

[00:04:53] Marcus Johnson: Um, I'm sure that skews towards a certain group. Not everyone's spending six grand on wellness, but there's six grand on wellness to go around apparently. Um, where's this coming from? Well,

[00:05:03] Rajiv Leventhal: well, I was gonna say when

[00:05:05] Marcus Johnson: you, w-

[00:05:05] Rajiv Leventhal: Mm. Yeah, when, when you drill down a little bit into that big spending number, uh, I have, uh, data in my chart from a, a December 2025 CivicScience surge- survey, uh, which shows that, uh, health and wellness is the only discretionary category where consumers who are spending money in that category anyway are- plan to spend more money than less money in 2026 on, in, you know, in that specific, uh, category, so as you can see in this chart here.

[00:05:32] Rajiv Leventhal: So it's, it, it looks at, the, the survey looked at other discretionary, uh, spending items, looking at, um, things like, uh, home improvements and travel and investing, and people who spend on, in those areas anyway planned, more people plan to decrease spending than increase, but health and wellness is that one resilient area of

[00:05:51] Marcus Johnson: consumer- Where's this come from, Rajeev?

[00:05:52] Marcus Johnson: Where's this wellness culture, um, bubbled up from?

[00:05:56] Rajiv Leventhal: Well, I, this, this is kinda the, the, the best question of, of... or, or sorry, the, um, the, the question that I was most interested in for my report. Yeah. And I think it's a result of two converging trends. It's the expansion of wellness content online, especially on social media- Mm

[00:06:13] Rajiv Leventhal: uh, and, and declining trust in, in traditional healthcare institutions. And, and it kinda makes sense, right? When you, when you think about, uh, influencers and creators and online communities for health advice, wellness information has become a lot more accessible and, and pervasive than ever before. Um- Mm

[00:06:31] Rajiv Leventhal: and then, y- you know, i- if you have someone who maybe not, has had, not, not had the best experience or best interactions with the traditional healthcare system, uh, you then, you know, that person might turn to alternative sources or some other, uh, channel with, uh, relate, with, with, uh, people who have similar experiences with them, uh, or as them as, as, you know, someone who might not have had the, the, the best experience with, uh, with, with the traditional healthcare system.

[00:07:00] Rajiv Leventhal: But of course, that also highlights some of the risks of the wellness boom because so much of this guidance is coming from, uh, you know, non-traditional sources, a lack of physician oversight or, or scientific validation. Um, but yeah, this, this boom is just happening online, and whether it's, you know, social media creators and AI, whether it's, um, you know, wellness fads that people are reading about online- Uh, that's just really surged over the last few years,

[00:07:31] Marcus Johnson: and I- Yeah.

[00:07:32] Beth Snyder Bulik: This is- I think we talk about a lot, we talked about this a lot with when we talk about influencers, right? Um, I think our last talk was about the influencers-

[00:07:40] Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm ...

[00:07:40] Beth Snyder Bulik: health, health and wellness influencers as well. I mean, they're, they're driving so much of this. And younger generations. I wrote a story not too long ago about, um, lifespan versus healthspan, and younger generations are much more aware of healthspan, what that means.

[00:07:52] Beth Snyder Bulik: They feel like they're more in control of their health. Um, so yeah. Yeah. German, you know-

[00:07:57] Marcus Johnson: Healthspan, for folks who don't know

[00:08:00] Beth Snyder Bulik: Um, meaning the, it, it, versus the years of your life, the, the wellness, the health and wellness you have- Mm-hmm ... for your, throughout your life.

[00:08:08] Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm. The

[00:08:10] Beth Snyder Bulik: he- yeah, the healthy years.

[00:08:10] Beth Snyder Bulik: Rather than just counting the number of years, right?

[00:08:11] Marcus Johnson: There's a study from Pew Research Center, um, from a few months ago, and they're basically showing, uh, Rajiv, k- kind of what, to what you were talking about. It's not just that people have a high level, um, uh, of, of trust, uh, in the information they get from, uh, medical peop- uh, people who have medical training on the topic, um, or transparent about potential conflicts of interest, or the information is easy to understand.

[00:08:33] Marcus Johnson: There were 82% of people who said that having personal experience with the topic is really important, uh, as well for them, uh, for folks who g- in terms of, um-

[00:08:42] Rajiv Leventhal: Right ...

[00:08:43] Marcus Johnson: people they're listening to to get their health information. Is it fair to say that this has kind of bubbled up because of social media?

[00:08:49] Marcus Johnson: Because of that word you used earlier, access.

[00:08:51] Rajiv Leventhal: Yeah, for sure. I mean, the doctors, I even have a section in my report with a, with a header. People do trust their doctors, but doctors cannot compete with, uh, online health information, and people might only have a few minutes to, to talk to their doctor, and it might not be the most comprehensive conversation that kind of encompasses, like, everything that's going on in a patient's life.

[00:09:11] Rajiv Leventhal: Uh, and even worse than that, you know, some people don't have good interactions with their doctors. They might have perceived biases. Um, they might not be able to get in to see the doctor that they, they want. Uh, you know, what- what- what have you. Um, you know, then people, you know, turn to, to other informati- or to other sources, people with, uh, relatable, uh, experiences and are going through similar things.

[00:09:32] Rajiv Leventhal: Uh, and you know, uh, GLP-1 weight loss drugs are a good example. We, we've done a podcast on this before and, um, even though weight loss drugs are out, uh, you know, they are a prescription medication that, uh, are prescribed to, to treat conditions like obesity and diabetes, uh, I, I consider them a wellness product, and I think most would agree because, uh, a lot of people don't take them necessarily to treat a condition, even though that's what they're intended and- Mm-hmm

[00:09:59] Rajiv Leventhal: approved for. Uh, you know, they, they take 'em for, you know, overall broader health management and, um, metabolic health and to, to, for, for portion control and appetite regulation and to have greater energy and really to have a greater health span, to live longer, right? To live healthier and longer. So, uh, be- a- and the reason I'm bringing that up is because GLP-1 weight loss drugs were probably the first medication that just sort of soared in use because of social media.

[00:10:28] Rajiv Leventhal: People would document their journey- Mm-hmm ... weight loss journeys, taking the medications, and that got a lot of people to, to go to their doctors and ask about them. Uh, and then, you know, peptides is another one. I, I can't stop reading about peptides. I'm not sure how, uh, you know, where you are of this, Marcus, but, um- Only when you told me about them- It's the latest

[00:10:45] Rajiv Leventhal: last week. Yeah, it's, it's, it's a, it's a, it's the latest wellness craze. And peptides and GLP-1s can kinda overlap a little bit, but there are these specific wellness peptides which are essentially unregulated, untested products, really, uh, they're, they supposedly have, have multiple benefits, but really they're, they're m- mainly taken for, like, muscle recovery, like recovery from an injury, but also, um, you know, kind of a, a just, just general, um, optimization.

[00:11:13] Rajiv Leventhal: And, uh, th- they've become so, so popular. Doctors don't like them, but they're, uh, you know, there's communities and, and groups that, uh, push these, that are, uh, you know, kind of a s- peptide obsessed, and influencer content all over about peptides. Here are the, uh ... And they're not just one big thing. It's like a broader category.

[00:11:33] Rajiv Leventhal: So here are peptides you should take, and here's where you can get them from this, you know, online retailer. And, uh, again, none- most of these products are not approved by the FDA. Mm-hmm. They're not even supposed to be used for humans. But, a- and, and you, you're thinking to myself, wh- y- to yourself, "Why would people want to take these?"

[00:11:50] Rajiv Leventhal: It's because of social influen- social media influencers and creators touting them. You know, "I, I've, I, I have this problem with my, uh, you know, with my health, with my daily life. Maybe you have this problem too. Here's a product that's really helped drive improvements." Mm-hmm. You can kinda see why people would, would be, uh, willing to, to dip into this, uh, dip into this pool, but, uh, yeah, doc- doctors are not happy about this peptide boom.

[00:12:16] Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Um, a lot of folks just focusing on the, um, perceived benefits, as you said, helping to speed up injury, um, uh, uh, recovery after an injury, uh, reducing inflammation. But then doctors saying, uh, pushing back and saying, "Well, hang on. We don't really know enough about these yet. They've not been approved, and so kind of hold your horses."

[00:12:36] Marcus Johnson: I wonder, before we go on to the next question, I wanna touch on something, uh, from the piece, Rajiv, you talk about, um, it's kind of this double-edged sword where wellness culture can empower consumers but also heighten pressure to meet evolving health ideals. Tell us more about this.

[00:12:51] Rajiv Leventhal: Yeah, I think, look, at the end, uh, ultimately when people are reading about health information online, if they use a technology device to track health data, i- in a vacuum, that's a good thing, right?

[00:13:02] Rajiv Leventhal: People are becoming more aware of, of maybe what's ... or, or, you know, how their body is functioning and what's going on in the world around them and how other people are, um, uh, are, are using different types of products and, and supplements and services to, to, and, and how it's working for them. So that in, in, in, in, in a vacuum gives people more agency, I think, in, over, over their health and over their wellness.

[00:13:29] Rajiv Leventhal: But- Mm-hmm ... there's just a lot of, um, pressure, right? There's, there's a lot, there's a burden to kinda conform to wellness culture, especially if you're really actively online and on social media and you see it, you know, wellness is everywhere. Well, yeah, you know, you might start feel, uh, you, you might feel pressure to- Missed out

[00:13:45] Rajiv Leventhal: uh, left out if you don't conform, right? Mm-hmm. And, you know, weight loss drugs are another example. There's a stat I used in my report of, of people who felt, uh, pressure to lose weight just by hearing and reading about GLP-1 drugs, whether that's through, you know, TV or internet advertisements or- Yeah

[00:14:01] Rajiv Leventhal: through articles or, you know, people around them, their experiences. But yeah, you, you, you wanna be careful of, you know, having the right tools in place to improve your health without going overboard and feeling, uh, you know, pressured to do so.

[00:14:14] Marcus Johnson: Yeah. I

[00:14:15] Beth Snyder Bulik: mean, I don't think it's a brand-new thing. I'm gonna chime in as a woman here.

[00:14:19] Beth Snyder Bulik: That pressure's been there for a long time, but- Mm ... as you pointed out, it's the social medias, the access to influencers. It's not just a, you know, "Here's a, here's a GLP-1 ad," or Weight Watchers ad, "You should, you should try this." It's thousands of touch points where people are- Mm ... are hearing it and be- not only can be influenced, but where they can buy.

[00:14:37] Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. As we've seen with a lot of things on social media, Beth, to your point, it's, it's not created it, but it's definitely exacerbated it. Um, and as you can see from this chart on the screen, re- um, Rajiv, you had this in your research. Two-thirds of consumers, two-thirds say wellness culture creates too much pressure according to the new consumer and coefficient capital.

[00:14:56] Marcus Johnson: Um, Beth, what's the relationship between this wellness movement and the traditional healthcare world? How much do they overlap? How separate are they?

[00:15:05] Beth Snyder Bulik: Well, I mean, I think Rajiv already mentioned that physicians aren't necessarily thrilled with some of it because- Right ... because it's not regulated, they're not in control of it.

[00:15:15] Beth Snyder Bulik: So I think that, um, it depends. So GLP-1s, the P stands for peptide, so those are kind of, you know, part of this, this wellness craze, and that's where doctors are weighing in. That is where they have a lot more control. But even there, because there's telehealth prescribers, it's relatively, I don't wanna say easy, but you can, it, uh, frictionless, let's say.

[00:15:35] Beth Snyder Bulik: You can go online and get a telehealth appointment and get a prescription, um, and maybe not even have to see that person. Maybe get, maybe get a few tests. I, you know, there are so many different compounded drugs out there. When it comes to the regulated ones, of course, you are going through a regular t- even if, though it's telehealth doctor, they're, y- you have to, you know, have the tests and, and do all the things you have to.

[00:15:56] Beth Snyder Bulik: But still- Mm-hmm ... um, so I would say that doctors are probably, not probably, they are, they're glad that people are losing weight and taking better control of their health, but then you sort of switch over and, and, and wellness as well, tracking your health. You can share that information with your doctor.

[00:16:09] Beth Snyder Bulik: Um, so, um, I would say they're glad about some of it, but then when you get into the, let's say, sketchier peptide sort of things, I just wrote an article about- Mm-hmm ... um, where people are getting these peptides from.

[00:16:21] Marcus Johnson: Oh, gosh.

[00:16:22] Beth Snyder Bulik: 14% get them from, uh, WhatsApp, Telegr- Telegram, or some other social media. 40? 14.

[00:16:30] Marcus Johnson: Oh.

[00:16:30] Beth Snyder Bulik: Sorry. That's still high, but- But still, that's high. Yeah. And 10% get them from overseas suppliers.

[00:16:34] Marcus Johnson: Okay. That's

[00:16:36] Beth Snyder Bulik: mad. That they gray market, so it's- So you're- Oh, completely.

[00:16:40] Marcus Johnson: Gosh.

[00:16:40] Rajiv Leventhal: You're watching, you're watching, like, a TikTok video of someone promoting peptides, and they have a brand deal or, or whatever, some sort of kickback from like

[00:16:49] Rajiv Leventhal: And, uh, a retailer sells the peptides, and here's a discount code. Uh, head over to WhatsApp, and, you know, you can get this, you know, really cheap, uh, coming in from China. And a- again, you might think this is crazy that people do this, but they really are.

[00:17:04] Marcus Johnson: Yeah.

[00:17:04] Beth Snyder Bulik: It is true. There was a New York Times article in January that I think my mouth was open the entire time I was reading it because it was people saying like-

[00:17:11] Beth Snyder Bulik: "Oh, yeah, I go to wellness parties and raves," and they're injecting themselves with things that people bring.

[00:17:18] Marcus Johnson: Gosh. So it's no wonder. Yeah. So Rajiv, you have this research, um, in your piece. Doctors, you say, don't want patients turning to alternative sources for wellness information. Uh, you say, "9 in 10 healthcare providers said they've had to address supplement misinformation," uh, patients encountered on social media, according to Tembra survey.

[00:17:38] Marcus Johnson: Is there a world where these two universes can coexist and help each other out? Or do you think, do you think they're growing closer together or kind of further apart in terms of the wellness movement and traditional healthcare?

[00:17:52] Rajiv Leventhal: I think they're further apart. There, there is a world where it can, uh, come close together.

[00:17:56] Rajiv Leventhal: I just don't think it's a realistic world because, um, you know, Beth noted that doctors want the control, and it makes sense. Like, they want to, uh... They need to be informed of all of, uh... If the doctor's gonna do his or her best job, they need to be informed of everything that's going on in a patient's life, and I just don't think, uh, achieving that is, is super realistic for, you know, lots of different reasons.

[00:18:18] Rajiv Leventhal: Uh, so, you know, u- un- unless, unless the doctor's going to have that information, um, I don't think that that world you describe is achievable. But- Mm-hmm ... but yeah, you know, doctors broadly agree with, you know, general wellness goals. I mean, this isn't gonna come as surprising, but, uh, prevention and behavior change and nutrition and exercise and stress management and better sleep, like, of course doctors agree with those goals.

[00:18:41] Rajiv Leventhal: But they're, but they're skeptical of how wellness has become this kind of co- cottage s- uh, side consumer industry, and how people's wellness-related decisions come from unchecked sources of information. So, you know, if, if, if a person has taken a supplement or a treatment that hasn't been rigorously test- tested or isn't FDA approved, there's just no way a doctor is gonna like that.

[00:19:05] Rajiv Leventhal: But a, but a patient doesn't wanna be told by their doctor what, what, what they don't like. So that's why I don't think that the, uh, the, the world you describe is, is gonna become a, a reality. So, um, and then the other, uh, thing that I think is important is a lot of these wellness brands and marketers say that conventional medicine is, is the problem and, you know, y- you need to try this because the conventional healthcare system and traditional prescription drugs, like, haven't worked for you, so come try this.

[00:19:30] Rajiv Leventhal: And of course- Mm ... doctors don't like, doctors don't like that either.

[00:19:33] Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm.

[00:19:34] Beth Snyder Bulik: Yeah. It- Yeah, but I remember there was something. Didn't you, you wrote e- either a story, or maybe this is in your report as well, that, um, doctors want to know. They want their, their patients to tell them- Yeah ... if they're taking something or-

[00:19:46] Rajiv Leventhal: Yeah, of course.

[00:19:47] Rajiv Leventhal: And they want, they wanna be able to course-correct, but, uh-

[00:19:49] Beth Snyder Bulik: But people are afraid to tell them. Like, they hide it from them.

[00:19:52] Rajiv Leventhal: Exa- exa- Yeah ... exactly, exactly. 100%. I mean, yeah, people hiding stuff from their doctors has been, you know, a problem forever. That's right. But now you just have more supplements and more products that they're hiding.

[00:20:01] Marcus Johnson: You write, "Clinicians remain the most trusted source of wellness guidance, yet patients don't consult them often enough." Why is that? Is that because of what you just said, they're kind of a bit ashamed, embarrassed, um, nervous, anxious to, to admit to their doctor these things they've seen online? What's the, what's the reason there?

[00:20:18] Marcus Johnson: What's going on?

[00:20:19] Rajiv Leventhal: Yeah, it's, it's, it's also, it- it's all those things, but it's also access. Um, and, um, you know, you know, people, people don't see their doctors all the time. They might see them every two months, every six months, every year. So they don't always have the greatest personal, personal connections with their doctors.

[00:20:36] Rajiv Leventhal: And, uh, you know, this might kind of be s- a scary thought, but younger people especially definitely have tighter connections with social media creators. And, uh, you know, that's probably why, uh, some of these d- a lot of these decisions, uh, are coming from, you know, non-medical- Mm ... uh, sources.

[00:20:58] Marcus Johnson: And you had some research that really highlighted this, that they are a significant influence over people's health decisions, correct?

[00:21:06] Rajiv Leventhal: Yeah, so there's a really good, uh, Edelman, uh, Health Trust survey that came out in, in March 2026, and as you can see on this chart here, for certain wellness categories, so for diet and nutrition, for vitamins and supplements, uh, and for, uh, wellness and longevity, people base their decisions i- you know, in these specific areas more on information from social media creators and AI than their doctor.

[00:21:34] Rajiv Leventhal: I mean, that's just incredible. So, so for, for diet and nutrition, thing that- things that- something that affects your life every single day. You make, you make diet choices and nutrition choices every day, multiple times a day. More people make those types of decisions based on social media information and AI information than their doctor.

[00:21:54] Rajiv Leventhal: Yeah. I mean, that's- that's wild.

[00:21:56] Marcus Johnson: It's shocking. Yeah, doctors have AI and influencers beat in diagnosis and short-term treatment. All the other stuff, wellness, longevity- Yeah ... vitamin supplements, uh, diet, i- it, it goes, uh, the influence meter is higher for, for AI and social media than the doctor.

[00:22:15] Rajiv Leventhal: People have a medical condition, then they wanna go to their doctors for that, those frequent check-ins, but when it comes to their kinda lifestyle habits, it's more so the other sources versus their doctor.

[00:22:26] Beth Snyder Bulik: Yeah. Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. Those two things that, that are on that chart, that those are the things you go to your doctor for, right? A diagnosis or treatment, and then kind of everything else. You have 15 minutes with your doctor, so you're gonna focus on those really important health matters versus- Mm

[00:22:40] Beth Snyder Bulik: you know, what kind of supplements do you think I should be taking, or how, you know, make- even as simple as, you know, exercising or what ki- what's the best kind of fitness device to get. You're gonna- Yeah. People are gonna- Yeah ... turn to others.

[00:22:51] Marcus Johnson: It comes back, uh, w- have you guys on, um, uh, regularly throughout the year, and I feel like a lot of the conversations we have come back to access, come back to cost, come back to if I could see my doctor more, then I would, and I would save these questions for them because they're qualified.

[00:23:10] Marcus Johnson: Um, they're the person, uh, with the training. Um, but a- if you can't get to them, uh, and there's this free source that's sometimes these people are physicians, sometimes they're people going through the same thing, um, then people would take that option as opposed to no option, 'cause that's the o- other alternative- And it's-

[00:23:28] Marcus Johnson: right, is speak to no one.

[00:23:31] Rajiv Leventhal: Yeah, and it's, it's so, I, yeah, the access and the cost is definitely a, a big issue and, and can't be understated. At the same time, like I, for my research, I was trying to make the connection between, well, people- Uh, you know, the healthcare system is too expensive and costs too much, so then that drives them to wellness, uh, products and services.

[00:23:49] Rajiv Leventhal: But the more I started researching, I found, well, a lot of these wellness products and services are pretty expensive, and it's not like insurance covers them. Mm. But what I found was that they're still willing to purchase them because of some sort of lack of, uh, institutional trust in the healthcare system.

[00:24:04] Rajiv Leventhal: Mm. Something that's really deeply ingrained. Uh, a- and like s- so many people that, you know, they, they won't, they won't take a CO- they won't get a COVID vaccine or they won't get a, uh, a vaccine for their kids, but they'll go online and buy a peptide that has no regulation and no, uh, testing done on humans.

[00:24:23] Rajiv Leventhal: So, uh, that is really tough to explain.

[00:24:26] Marcus Johnson: Yeah. The trust, yeah, that, that word, trust.

[00:24:29] Rajiv Leventhal: And vaccines are free, basically.

[00:24:30] Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. If you don't trust the institution, um, you're more likely- Right ... to turn away from it. Right. And that doesn't mean you don't want to trust the institution. You wouldn't rather go to an institution.

[00:24:42] Marcus Johnson: It's saying that the current one, for whatever reason, you don't trust it, so you turn away and, and seek alternatives. Um, uh, let's turn to this to close out. Uh, Rajivi talk about how brands and retailers are redesigning offers, um, their products, um, for the, for the wellness-conscious shopper. In what ways are they doing this?

[00:25:04] Rajiv Leventhal: Yeah, so I, I think what's, what's the top line takeaway is that, you know, wellness has become a ubiquitous marketing term. It's, it's kind of funny, like we're, we're- we've talked about health a lot here, but, uh, because there's not really like a strict confined definition for wellness, which, you know, we- we alluded to, brands across all industries are using it to sell everything from supplements, but even like financial services, like they're using wellness in their marketing for that.

[00:25:30] Rajiv Leventhal: So, uh, I, you know, I kind of focused in on some, um, food companies and beverage companies and supplement makers and, uh, retailers and how they're, uh, you know, how they're using, uh, wellness as, as, as sort of like a, a way to, to, to reshape some of their offerings or, um, you know, to, to kind of create like a, a whole business around wellness.

[00:25:52] Rajiv Leventhal: So, you know, there's, there's CPG b- brands like Unilever and, and PepsiCo that, uh, essentially have made really, uh, expensive acquisitions of wellness companies, whether that's, you know, a, a, a vitamin, you know, you know, super gummy maker, I think is in, in terms of Unilever. And then for, um, uh, PepsiCo, they bought a, uh, prebiotic soda bra- uh, brand.

[00:26:14] Rajiv Leventhal: So these are companies that are not really known for like healthy items, uh, uh, h- however, but, you know, they're meeting consumer demands, and they know that they kind of have to, uh, change some of their, th- their product lines to, to be more wellness focused. Uh, and then, you know, retailers as well, Walmart, Walgreens, Target, um, have all made, um, you know, their items of, you know, whether it's, you know, more protein or, you know, private label items that are, are more wellness focused.

[00:26:44] Rajiv Leventhal: Uh, Target said in their earnings call, I think in May, that, uh, 70% of their shoppers, uh, you know, buy, uh, or search for wellness focused items at Target. So again, like places- Wow ... that you really wouldn't consider as traditional wellness companies-

[00:27:02] Marcus Johnson: Yeah ...

[00:27:03] Rajiv Leventhal: are moving into wellness because of, of consumer demand.

[00:27:05] Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, Rajiv's got some, uh, recommendations for brands and retailers in, uh, the research, uh, which comes out, uh, this week. Um, and, and they're excellent. So, um, we don't have time to go through them unfortunately, but, uh, they are really, really good. So Purple subscribers, uh, you can find the full report, uh, the Health and Wellness, uh, Market 2026 at the link in the show notes or anymarketer.com.

[00:27:30] Marcus Johnson: Uh, that's all we got time for today's episode, unfortunately. I could talk to these guys forever. Uh, thank you so much though, to Rajiv.

[00:27:36] Rajiv Leventhal: Thanks so much for having me, Marcus.

[00:27:37] Marcus Johnson: Yes, of course. And to Beth.

[00:27:39] Beth Snyder Bulik: Thanks, Marcus.

[00:27:40] Marcus Johnson: Yes, yes. Thank you to Lance on the production crew and to everyone for listening to Behind the Amazing Marketing Podcast, made possible by Rokt.

[00:27:45] Marcus Johnson: Suzy will be here Wednesday speaking with Chief Digital Officer of Rainbow Apparel, and I'll be back on Friday discussing what you need to know about the current state of AI shopping assistants.