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Hey gang, it's Thursday, November 5th. Minda, Lindsay, and listeners, welcome to a Behind the Numbers special edition episode, an eMarketer podcast made possible by GIPHY. I'm Marcus, and joining me for today's conversation we have, calling New York home, Senior Social Media Analyst, Minda Smiley.

Minda Smiley: Hey, Marcus.

Marcus Johnson: Hello there. And also, living in California, Senior Managing Director at GIPHY, Lindsay Aston joins the show. Hello.

Lindsay Aston: Hello.

Marcus Johnson: Welcome. Anytime we have a guest from outside the company, we start of [00:01:00] course with a speed intro.

All right. First question is just for Lindsay, 'cause people know Minda already. Lindsay, what does your company do, in a sentence, and what do you do for them in another?

Lindsay Aston: Yes. So GIPHY is the largest library of GIF stickers and clips out there, and we give emotion that can't be conveyed in any other way but visual.

And I like to call us a visual search engine.

Marcus Johnson: Oh, yeah, I like that. That's cool. And what do you do for them?

Lindsay Aston: I am the managing director of sales. So I have a sales team that works with us and works with brands to help bring them cultural relevance and I would say emotion to their brand.

Marcus Johnson: Cool.

Excellent. All right. Second question is for both of you. Lindsay, you'll start. What is the most interesting thing you've read, watched, or listened to recently?

Lindsay Aston: Oh, gosh. So I recently went to see Rosalía, and that concert really blew my mind. I was aware of her but not really a huge fan. I had [00:02:00] listened to some music, but her concert was just so mind-blowing.

She actually was on SNL not too long ago as well. Okay. Singing full opera in toe shoes, and she made us laugh and cry. It was everything you could imagine, but so she's constantly on in the background now when I work.

Marcus Johnson: All the emotions. Amazing.

Lindsay Aston: Yeah. It was really good.

Marcus Johnson: Terrific. Minda, how about you?

Minda Smiley: Hi. So I'm a senior analyst here at eMarketer, as you said. Most interesting thing I've seen, watched, or read this week... Okay, I'm gonna kinda cheat with this one, but my- Oh ... my algorithms the past month have been all about focused on the movie You Can See Everything, that new documentary with Nathan Fielder- Oh, yeah

and Elizabeth Holmes. And I have not seen the movie yet, and I feel like I just keep seeing all this content. I'm dying to see it. So I finally- Yeah ... bought tickets, and this Sunday I am treating myself to a solo movie date. No kids, no husband. I'm just going to the movies alone. I'm gonna finally see it.

Nice. And I'm very excited, so yeah.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Very good. [00:03:00] I'm going tonight.

Minda Smiley: Oh, are you? Nice.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Just really- No spoilers

Minda Smiley: then. ...

Marcus Johnson: so people stop asking me to go. Yeah. No, I promise. Oh, so

Minda Smiley: you don't wanna go see it ... yeah. It sounds like you're being forced to go see it.

Marcus Johnson: I kinda do now, but I'm the expectations are too high, I think, already.

I know. I

Minda Smiley: know ...

Marcus Johnson: but it seems like maybe they're justified.

Minda Smiley: That's what my husband said. He was like, "You're so excited, it's never gonna be as good as you think it's going to be 'cause like- ... you've been too hyped up about it," which

Marcus Johnson: we'll see. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm telling myself it's gonna be rubbish, but it won't be.

Lindsay Aston: I'm keeping the faith. I think it's gonna be great.

Marcus Johnson: Oh, you haven't seen it either?

Lindsay Aston: No. I'm so excited for it.

Marcus Johnson: We're the three p- last people on the planet- I

Lindsay Aston: know. Pretty

Marcus Johnson: much ... that haven't seen it, so we'll get around to it. But before that, today's real topic is how GIFs outlive the moment.

So back in May 2025, we learned about the origins of the GIF in an episode Lindsay, with your colleague Alex McAlpine. Yes. Turns out graphics interchange format is what they're known as when they're [00:04:00] being told off by their parents. They were born in June 1987. Computer scientist Steve Wilhite, online service provider CompuServe, he worked for them he invented them to make color graphics download quickly over the slower 1980s dial-up internet, as folks will probably remember some.

They used LZ or ZW compression to shrink file sizes without losing image quality saving users time and money. Today- They are much more than that, where culture communication, creativity all meld together. And so the first question Lindsay, I'll start with you, is, in your opinion, what happens when a cultural moment becomes a GIF and lives far beyond its original context?

Lindsay Aston: We all have these shared moments whether it's like the World Cup or a concert or an awards show. And these all spark memorable moments. So you may remember Beyonce from the Grammys where she... I'm gonna try not to portray the, the GIFs live, but it's in my nature [00:05:00] now. It's You should.

So it's when she jumps up and is very surprised that she won Album of the Year. So that was something that was super culturally relevant that people were able to use. She put it on her Instagram, which was fun. But then we have moments that are like the World Cup. So we saw about 500 plus percent increase in searches for Erling Haaland, so- during the World Cup. And that was- Okay ... on Norway's last game that we saw. And the- Yeah ... interesting thing there is I don't think half of the US had even ever heard of him prior to- No ... the World Cup.

Marcus Johnson: No.

Lindsay Aston: And he really just sparked this cultural phenomenon that was happening. And, He's

Marcus Johnson: their striker who just is the most, one of the most dominant players in soccer or football for Norway, yeah.

Lindsay Aston: Yeah. I definitely jumped on the bandwagon. Huge fan. But the idea that all these people started to search Erling Haaland. They were seeing these GIFs of him catching his reflection in the glass and scaring himself. They were seeing the ones of him prowling around the pitch waiting for the ball to come to him.

And those [00:06:00] moments while they're happening are very relevant obviously. They're people are able to celebrate with them. They're able to, trash talk while they're watching the matches. But what happens in the future with those is, that Erling Haaland one of him walking around the pitch, very stalking that's now walking into my boss's office.

So they take on a life of their own and they- ... e- evolve well past this point of the, the World Cup, and they turn into a cultural moment that is completely outside of it. And so a lot of people don't even recognize what the cultural moment was, where it originated. And so they started this, this own, their own cultural moment with it.

And then we see we see this with GIFs where like the life of them evolves with four or five different lives.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. I think some people if... The John Travolta looking around the room, Pulp Fiction one comes to mind. Yes. And some people might not know that's from Pulp Fiction. So it really can take on a life of their own.

Minza, w- in your opinion, how do they, Outlive their original [00:07:00] intention when they were shot.

Minda Smiley: Yeah, I think oftentimes, like, when a new cultural moment happens, months, year, even years later if that- sometimes that emotion from that GIF still applies, and so I think that's they kinda, it ju- it's almost like they kinda build on each other.

And I think kinda- ... to what both of you were saying, I think what's so interesting about GIFs and memes is that you don't really have to understand the context around it. And oftentimes a, a lot of GIFs, I feel like you don't even really know who the person is. It might not even be a famous person or a person of note.

It might just be from a random interview that someone found and thought was funny, and it, pe- it kinda just snowballs from there. And so I think that's kinda how they can kinda keep the, that, that longevity going, which I think is super interesting.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. There's various entertainment moments from a bunch of different celebrities.

I also was learning about some, some viral creators, IShowSpeed, Druski, F- Flights didn't realize they existed till very recently. But w- what makes, Lindsay, start with you, what makes certain moments GIF worthy, and why do we keep coming back to them?

Lindsay Aston: Yeah. IShowSpeed, I was not aware of him prior [00:08:00] to working at GIPHY.

Okay, you're educated. Thank you. No. Not at all. I've learned a lot of things since I've been here. So he is a streamer and has a very young audience. And he, his face is so emotive, and he was just made for GIFs. So he, there's tons of content on G- GIPHY for him, and it's been really interesting to see how it's gone from very mainstream media to streamers.

Druski is an influencer who became a comic, who has now stretched far beyond that. He's going to host Saturday Night Live in, I think, two weeks, maybe a week. So he too, it almost looks like someone told him what to do to make GIFs, because every reaction he has is so powerful. And everything he does, whether it's happy, sad, exuberant, it's, he's just, he's hilarious.

So these GIFs it's very much, even in the time that I've been here, which is a little over a year and a half they've evolved so much. Just to, the younger generation is really picking up on those, and it's [00:09:00] just interesting to see, like, how much gets uploaded daily, and how many- Yeah

come on our trending feed.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Speaking of the younger generations, Mindy is there gonna be a point where the older generation is gonna struggle to communicate with the younger generation through GIFs? Because they use them differently, right? Gen Z, Gen Alpha they're changing the way that GIFs are created, the way they're shared.

And I'm wondering if they're still gonna be intergenerational in terms of how people communicate through GIFs.

Minda Smiley: Yeah. I think to some extent. I think no matter what you're talking about any form of media there's always gonna be generational differences. The younger generations are always gonna be making fun of the older gen- older generations right?

It's just kinda part of the life cycle of any, of anything. ... But I think, when we talk about GIFs specifically, I feel like we're just now seeing ... I think the oldest Gen Alphas turn 13 this year, right? We're just kinda now seeing them become teenagers- and really kinda, they're really gonna be starting to join more platforms in the next few years as they gain more accessibility and just grow older essentially. And so yeah, we're definitely gonna [00:10:00] see changes in terms of h- you know, how they use them. And I think oftentimes each generation kinda has their own quirks, their own languages.

A lot of it won't make sense. I'm in my mid-30s. I like to think I'm not that old, but to a 13-year-old, I probably am. And I probably wouldn't understand maybe how they're using them or and whatnot, but I think that's okay. That, like I said, that's just that's par for the course in marketing.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Lindsay, how, what have you seen in terms of how younger people are using GIFs c- compared to previous generations?

Lindsay Aston: It's different. I will definitely say that. We have come a long way from the, the Boomers who sent the happy birthdays. Th- what we're seeing right now with Gen Alpha and Gen Z is feeds.

They like to comment in feeds. So think about, like, when you see something funny on TikTok and you run to the comments and it's just already littered with GIFs. It was- ... almost instantaneously, like you think you found something, and there's probably 1.5 million likes on it already, but you were the one who found it.

So what happens then is it becomes like this inside [00:11:00] joke for Gen Alpha and Gen Z, where it's very quick and moves fast, and they do this on Instagram as well, but it's like everyone's in on the joke.

Marcus Johnson: Do we have any sense of how... It takes me, I commit to the GIF. I, it's taken me like 20 minutes sometimes to find the perfect one.

Is that just me, or are people putting as much effort into selecting their GIFs as I am?

Lindsay Aston: You're the dot. Yeah.

Marcus Johnson: But they-

Lindsay Aston: Yeah. So Gen Z actually, so they utilize messaging a lot. So whether they're talking about a job interview or going on a date or something, they're the dot generation.

Where everyone's taking their time to figure out the best comment, Okay ... to use a GIF for. Yeah. And like it, you can have full conversations just with GIFs. Yeah. And they tend to supersede the topics that you're talking about at some point

Minda Smiley: That's so funny. Yeah. I feel I don't know, I'm a, a millennial, but I feel like with GIFs espe- especially it's operating on two levels when you're finding one you wanna use, right?

'Cause it's like, not only do you wanna have the most [00:12:00] clever one, but it also kinda has to reflect your own personal taste, right? Like- Yes ... maybe I wanna say something funny, but I also want someone to know I like 30 Rock, so I'm gonna try to find a funny 30 Rock based one. Yeah. So it's like, it, I think that's why it takes so long sometimes, 'cause you're like, "Which one is the funniest, but also represents me the most?"

Marcus Johnson: Which one gets me? Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsay Aston: Definitely.

Marcus Johnson: That's a good point.

Lindsay Aston: I'm a Keith Morrison popcorn eater- ... not a Michael Jackson popcorn eater. So yeah, it really does reflect who you are.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Because it does, when I've sent them it does seem... There's been moments not so much anymore, but when I f- first was spending 10, 15 minutes looking for a GIF, I was like, "What are you doing with your life, Marcus?"

"Just pick a GIF and move on." But then I was like, no, this is more than that, because I'm trying to if I'm sending it to my mum or a family member or friend, I, and I'm, the intention is to make them laugh, then I want them to laugh. And so it's more than just, okay, send a reaction, this is how I'm feeling.

It's a moment to make them smile, because I know that the thing I send is gonna be meaningful in some way.

Lindsay Aston: Yeah. And w- okay, so if you're having a bad day [00:13:00] even, you bring up- Yeah ... a good point. Like, when you are searching for that perfect GIF to convey it's the Michael Cera falling on the ground from Arrested Development, or it's, the little girl with her head down just like, "Life is so hard," you're probably laughing by the time you send it.

It's just such a personal connection to it. Yeah. So it's just a joyful experience all around.

Marcus Johnson: That's how I choose them, actually, is I wait- ... until I have a reaction to the GI- and then I'm like, "That's the one."

Lindsay Aston: Totally.

Marcus Johnson: That's the one.

Lindsay Aston: I'm a scroller, too.

Marcus Johnson: Okay, good. So all right, zooming out from the generation then Lindsay, I'll start with you.

H- how has the way we use GIFs changed? Because they've expanded beyond messaging. You were telling us b- earlier that they are now on platforms Partiful. So how, yeah, how have they changed in terms of moving beyond just the messaging apps?

Lindsay Aston: Yeah. When you were talking about the we'll just call it a dot now.

When you were talking about finding the perfect GIF Venmo is the one that catches me off guard, 'cause I never quite know which, which GIF to use- ... when I'm paying for something or paying someone back. So it has to actually [00:14:00] convey that. So I think what it really comes down to is just the sentiment of what you're trying to get through.

Some platforms you might struggle a little bit harder because it's a very specific message that you're trying to convey. Partiful it's- can't wait to be there so fun, dog dancing. Like, all these different things that you can be looking up to send, but probably not what you would be sending in a feed.

Yeah. So that's how they change from platform to platform. And, we have 1.1 billion searches every single day, And you imagine if we're across thousands of platforms the nature of what they're sending, the sentiment of what they're sending, it's going to be different for every single one.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Yeah, Mindy, I was thinking about GIFs finding their way into the corporate world. Yeah. Because- Slack ... we use them now through, yeah, through Slack. And a lot of the... sometimes to make someone laugh, sometimes it's just to give people some context for the, for your tone.

Minda Smiley: Yeah.

Marcus Johnson: And to take the edge off of messages that may be misinterpreted because of the lack of body language.

'Cause now we communicate so much through through the computer, through, through messaging s- [00:15:00] services on the computer, through Z- Zoom, things like that. And so I've been using it personally, and I feel like others as well have used it to provide context to when you say something, I'm not angry or there's no-

Passive aggressiv- aggressiveness in this comment. It's, I'm trying to soften the message.

Minda Smiley: Yeah. That's so funny you say that. In my past role I was a manager. I had a team of five, and I'm pretty sure all of them were younger than me. Not much younger than me, but little bit younger.

And I remember when you're a manager, you really have to think about communication, especially over Slack and whatnot. And so I would... I was always very careful to think about what emoji should I use, or what GIF should I use? Or like- Yeah. Just, yeah, because this was also the height of COVID when we were really super working remotely.

And yeah it's interesting to see how a- how all of those dynamics are at play when you're just maybe trying to tell someone a simple message. Yeah. But it's reality, for sure.

Lindsay Aston: Yeah, that's tr- it definitely conveys an emotion. We have the millennial LOL that everyone wants us to get rid of.

Yeah. So it definitely helps with that. I think, like, when you mention me- messaging at work I use Slack all day long, and [00:16:00] email- ... all day long, and that's usually where the bulk of mine are being sent from. But this kind of... it makes me think about this example of the emotion that I felt when Dolly Parton died.

And it was, someone posted a GIF of her on Slack, in, in our work Slack, and then I thought, "Oh, good, she's coming back to her Las Vegas residency." And then I went to her trending page, and you could see, like, all these heartbroken things. And so it's not only conveying it for the workplace, but it's conveying it for, definitely other reasons, and for every emotion that you're looking for.

But yeah, it's, we have these big moments of joy, and we have these big moments of, when a cultural icon dies, and it's not really something that you know how to convey. It feels weird to feel such grief from something like that. But- ... we saw a huge spike in people searching for heartbroken, which-

Really conveys to you what happened and how everyone felt. And it helps- Yeah ... people process culture in real time.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah.

Lindsay Aston: So [00:17:00]

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. It can be picking the right gift to make someone laugh or to find the right kind of sentiment-

...

Marcus Johnson: In, yeah, in a more heartfelt moment. To that point arguably a tough place for, for brands to navigate Lindsay.

H- Have you noticed kind of any trends, any shifts in terms of how brands are using gifts to connect and engage with audiences?

Lindsay Aston: Brands are most successful when they follow the lead and see what's happening. So if you're looking to, depending on the audience, so Gen Z for instance, I've learned so many slang phrases from Gen Z that I never knew before.

I feel like if I say any of them now they're probably already out of the culture. So I'm just gonna spare myself that one. We are able to align creative in such a way that it becomes relevant to a specific audience. And so brands are really catching on to this idea that for them to be culturally relevant, they need to be part of this emotional connection and we see some brands that do y- advertising where they really embrace the, the m- [00:18:00] the platform.

Activision y- they did a Call of Duty campaign. There's a character called the Replacer. He replaced all the GIFs that you know and love. So like Homer Simpson backing into the bushes, and the replacer was Willy Wonka or, Leo DiCaprio with his champagne. And so this, that opened a door for not only the people who knew about Call of Duty to be excited about it and to feel like they were in on the joke, but for people to explore more of what this was that weren't familiar with Call of Duty- and to expand on that. Yeah. But I think, there's just so many different ways to embrace the platform, but I think ultimately if you're looking to be culturally relevant, that's where it is.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Minda, any thoughts here on brands and GIFs?

Minda Smiley: Yeah, I think like Lindsay said, I think some, I think sometimes we know when a moment's going to be, like, GIF worthy.

Like I'm just thinking about the World Cup, of course, like these massive tent pole events are probably going to be good fodder for that kind of stuff. But I feel Lindsay, correct me if I'm wrong, but I find that I'm sure a lot of times the moments [00:19:00] that become popular are actually very serendipitous or random or maybe something you would never expect, like randomly takes off, and you're like, "Okay."

So I think again, it kinda just goes back to generally brands like having to have their finger on the pulse of what's going on and knowing what's going on because it's not gonna always be those obvious things. I feel like a lot of it is very random.

Lindsay Aston: Yeah. You can only plan for so much, and so they really depend on the data of it all. Like pumpkin spice latte season is huge. Yeah. And really random things that pop for us that y- we need to teach them to embrace a bit more to want to align themselves to bigger moments.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah.

Excellent place to end. Time for a couple of quick takeaways from the episode. Let's start with GIFs reflecting the emotion of a cultural moment. I spoke a lot about that up top. I think number two is GIFs are generationally valuable to everyone. One of the ways that you can communicate across generations, and everyone understands what you're trying to convey.

And then lastly, GIFs living [00:20:00] outside the feed. And so people should be thinking, brands in particular, about the fact that GIFs don't have to just live on the feed. They can live a multitude of other places as well. All right. That's all we've got time for this episode. Thank you so much to my guests for today.

Thank you first to Minda.

Minda Smiley: Yeah, thank you. This was fun.

Marcus Johnson: Yes, indeed. And to Lindsay.

Minda Smiley: Thank you.

Marcus Johnson: And of course, thank you to Mike and the production crew, and Stuart who runs the team helping us out with this episode. Thanks to everyone for listening in to a Behind the Numbers special edition episode, the marketing podcast made possible by GIPHY.

I hope to see everyone tomorrow on Behind the Numbers, where we'll be discussing the big three questions for OpenAI.