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Marcus Johnson (00:00):

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(00:41):

Hey gang, it's Friday, October 10th. I don't know. I think, yeah, it is. Minda, Paola, welcome to Behind the Numbers, an EMARKETER video podcast made possible by Fetch Rewards. I'm Marcus, and joining me for today we have two folks, both based in New York. Coming to us from our New York studio, we have Senior Social Media Analyst, Minda Smiley.

Minda Smiley (01:03):

Hey, Marcus.

Marcus Johnson (01:04):

Hello there. And we have our Demographics Analyst, Paola Flores-Marquez.

Paola Flores-Marquez (01:08):

Hi, everyone.

Marcus Johnson (01:09):

Hello. Today's fact. You'll be terrified to learn that we are outnumbered by Lego people. So, since 1978, Lego has produced over eight billion Lego people, enough to outnumber humans according to the Guinness World Records. How intimidated should we be?

Minda Smiley (01:35):

I feel like I'm already being outnumbered by Lego people in my own apartment between my husband and my son, so just a normal day for me, I guess.

Marcus Johnson (01:44):

They'll take you first is what you say.

Minda Smiley (01:46):

Yeah.

Marcus Johnson (01:46):

If you haven't heard from Minda in a while, then you know the Lego people are coming.

Minda Smiley (01:49):

Yeah.

Marcus Johnson (01:51):

Since 1958, their patent in 1958, over 1.1 trillion bricks have been produced, enough to circle the earth nearly 20 times or give every person a live 130 Lego pieces.

Paola Flores-Marquez (02:07):

Redistribute the Legos. I'm on board. I think we all should have Legos.

Marcus Johnson (02:12):

If I ran for president, that would be my platform.

Paola Flores-Marquez (02:14):

I think you'd win. I would vote for you.

Marcus Johnson (02:16):

Easily. Are you kidding?

Paola Flores-Marquez (02:18):

And they're expensive.

Marcus Johnson (02:20):

Exactly. You're welcome, America. Lego also holds the Guinness World Record as the largest tire manufacturer on the planet, making around 700 million mini tires every year, more than Goodyear, Michelin, Bridgestone combined.

Minda Smiley (02:35):

Wow.

Marcus Johnson (02:36):

So if they do attack, they'll be in vehicles as well, so they'll be able to mobilize.

Paola Flores-Marquez (02:42):

I welcome our Lego overlords.

Minda Smiley (02:43):

[inaudible 00:02:46].

Paola Flores-Marquez (02:48):

That would be a more peaceful world.

Minda Smiley (02:48):

Yeah.

Marcus Johnson (02:48):

Probably be a better one, yeah.

Minda Smiley (02:48):

Bring it on. Let's see what happens.

Marcus Johnson (02:50):

Anyway, today's real topic, what Gen Z now want from social media. So 83% of Gen Zers have tried to limit their social media usage, 83% according to the Harris Poll. Real quick, Paola, I'll turn to you as our demographics person, Gen Z, 13 to 28 now?

Paola Flores-Marquez (03:15):

Yeah, 13 to 28 because the eldest of Gen Alphas will be turning 13 next year. So, exciting.

Marcus Johnson (03:22):

It's quite the range of people at very different stages of life, but that's the group we're talking about. And over eight in 10 of them trying to limit their social media use, which that's a high number. This is not older folks who remember growing up in a world before smartphones existed. These are the digital generation. We've seen digital detox stats before, Minda, yet there's research from DCDX noting that Gen Zers spend well over seven hours a day on their phones. That's getting close to half of their waking hours, staring at a phone screen. With that in mind, Minda, because you have this data point about Gen Z, trying to take a step back from social media somewhat, with that in mind, what's your take on this key stat that 83% of Gen Zers have tried to limit their social media usage?

Minda Smiley (04:12):

I think it's interesting, but not necessarily surprising. And I think when you drill down to the data a little bit more, you see that what that actually looks like can take many forms, which partly explains why that number is so high. The top reason that many of them cited in terms of how they try to limit their usage is muting or unfollowing an account. And that's certainly a way to limit usage. But even if you mute one account, you still might be using social media quite a bit. So I think that the form it can take definitely varies, but I think what it really speaks to, why that number is so high, is just this general sentiment that a lot of them, they are hyper aware of how much they use social media, and a lot of them do want to get off. I think sometimes we tend to paint this picture of this generation that just loves social media and that they just don't want to get off of it. But I think it's much more nuanced than that.

Paola Flores-Marquez (05:05):

They're not babies, 70% of them are over the age of 18. They're adults and they're reading what we're reading about how bad social media is for you. They're well aware and they're well aware that it's addictive by nature. By design, I should say. And a lot of them have grown up with a front row view of the toxicity that can come from it, whether it's interpersonal or misinformation. And so, I think that's also leading them to romanticize a world without smartphones that they may or may not remember.

Minda Smiley (05:36):

And I think you bring up a good point, Paola. And I'm guilty of it too. We tend to think of them as these really young people. Some of them are close to 30, some of them are probably starting families. They definitely are. These are adults with jobs and careers and houses. And I feel like it's important to note that because they know what's going on. They are well aware of the impact that social has had on their lives.

Marcus Johnson (05:59):

Over 70% being over 18 is important context because Gen Z does sound like just a very, very young generation. And in reality to what you guys are saying, it's just not anymore. I want to throw that data up on the screen here. Minda, you were talking about basically looking at how folks are trying to limit their social media usage. This data from the Harris Poll, as you said, the first way that folks are trying to limit their social media use is that 42% who are unfollowing and muting accounts, 40% are deleting social media apps outright, but not their accounts. They're deleting the apps. And 36% disabling out of app notifications. So they're turning the volume down, so to speak, as opposed to stepping away forever. Have we seen any change in this kind of behavior, or is it typically been, "I'm just trying to take a step away," as opposed to shut it off completely?

Minda Smiley (06:54):

I would say just from conversations I've had and data I've looked at, I think in very few instances is it a cold turkey approach. I love the way you put it, Marcus. It's a turning the volume down. It's being more mindful of how much time you're spending on these apps. I don't think there are many people out there that are able to just delete all the major apps they use and just continue on with their lives. It's become so embedded.

Paola Flores-Marquez (07:17):

It's inescapable and it's the primary form of communication with their friends. And as we were talking about, memes are a love language. It's the way that you connect now and it's hard to step away from that for a long term.

Marcus Johnson (07:30):

It's not just stepping away from an app, it's just stepping away from your social group, which I challenge anyone to do, wherever that social group may be hanging out. So I guess it's kind of like... I don't know, I felt like this, by the way, myself growing up. I wasn't going to clubs and bars that much, but that's where everyone was. And so, you had to go even if you didn't want to because that's where most of your friends were. And this just seems like the new version of that. So lots of folks using social media who are in this Gen Z group, but they are trying to step away somewhat. If we scratch below the surface though of this, it's still an inordinate amount of time on these platforms. Seven hours a day looking at screens for young people according to that research I just mentioned. In terms of where young people are spending their social media time in particular, Minda, what can you tell us?

Minda Smiley (08:21):

I think the major apps that you think of are where they're generally spending their time, TikTok, Instagram, YouTube. That being said, we are seeing some interesting trends play out on those platforms, and I know Paola can speak to that as well. But while TikTok does remain the most popular app among this generation, they are spending less and less time on it year over year when we look at our forecasts. So I think some of the magic around TikTok has been starting to fade a little bit. And then, of course, all the uncertainty around the app in the U.S. specifically is playing into that as well. So we're seeing that lose its luster a little bit.

(08:55):

And then, YouTube, interestingly is really on the up and up. There was a really interesting stat. I believe over half of Gen Zers said they're using YouTube more this year than they did last year, according to a YouGov survey. And that really just stuck out to me, considering YouTube has been around for quite some time, it's not some new app on the scene, YouTube has been around for a really long time. And so, to see that we're still seeing a young generation still really be interested in YouTube and want to spend even more time there, I think just speaks to the fact that YouTube is having a moment right now for many reasons, which we can get into.

Paola Flores-Marquez (09:27):

I think that totally tracks. You brought up in your report as well, that they're becoming more passive. Their level of consumption is... Millennials, we would post our shoes in a random photo dump of our night out, right? I think Gen Z is a lot more selective about when they're interacting on social media and what they're posting about. They're very selective about what parts of their life they're sharing, and that's led them to come at it from a more consuming base as opposed to an active contribution.

Marcus Johnson (09:57):

That's one of the things that jumped out to me actually, was that we're firmly in the era of social entertainment. Because in your report you had, there's this question, when asked the top reasons Gen Zers used social media, most, 76% said as an entertainment source, speaking to what Paola is saying in terms of being passive consumption of the content. That's right behind that, 69% of people saying that it's just to pass the time. And that's compared to third place, 53% of people saying, "To connect to people I know." So how people are using social is incredibly different. From the survey data, gang, is YouTube on top? Because sometimes we don't consider it as a social network, but it is part of social media. Has YouTube got more users and more time spent for this generation?

Paola Flores-Marquez (10:46):

I think so. It tops every single generation. It is the leading platform for I think all generations. The level of activity on it, like my 65-year-old father can't figure out his email, but he certainly figured out YouTube. So when you include it in the social media roster, it tends to top the list.

Minda Smiley (11:09):

It is incredibly popular. But I think TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, they're all still being used. Even Snapchat. Snapchat is still definitely in the mix. I know they're one of the smaller players, but I talked to someone recently, a marketer who was saying Snapchat is basically the equivalent of a phone number for younger people. In high school, you're going to give someone your Snapchat, you're not going to give someone your number anymore. And so, there are all these different ways the platforms... They have their own individual places within the day-to-day lives of Gen Zers.

Paola Flores-Marquez (11:38):

I was just working on something yesterday, it was 50% of Snapchat is Gen Z. They make up half the platform. It's massive.

Minda Smiley (11:46):

Skews young, for sure.

Marcus Johnson (11:48):

Instagram seemed to be millennials' address book, Snapchat sounds like is Gen Z's address book, so to speak. Really quickly, looking at those three platforms, what's interesting, though, from the data you have in your research, Minda, is that there's a real divergence happening by platform. According to our forecast, Instagram, TikTok and Snapchat all had about a similar number of Gen Z users, close to 50 million each last year. And in the next four to five years, young Instagram users will grow by 10 million. So that's going to go up into the right. Young TikTok users will grow slightly by about three million. Over that time. Not per year, over that time. And young Snapchat users will fall by about three million over that same period. So Instagram up, TikTok up and flat pretty much, and then, Snapchat down a little bit. Is that because they're just getting older and using social media differently than when they were younger? Or is there something happening by platform that is really pulling in those younger users?

Minda Smiley (12:43):

A few different reasons. I think generally you're right, Marcus, I think a lot of them do age out of Snapchat. We certainly saw it with millennials. I used to use it a lot. I hardly ever use it anymore. So I think partly is just the aging aspect. I do think Instagram is interesting. We are seeing a lot of momentum with Instagram among Gen Z. and I think part of that is just the platform's ability to diversify. They have the main feed, they have stories, they have messaging. Reels have momentum, so there's just a lot there. I was thinking about it earlier. And this is not an exact comparison, but I almost feel like Instagram is to Gen Z as what Facebook was to millennials.

Paola Flores-Marquez (13:21):

One thousand percent, I completely agree.

Minda Smiley (13:23):

You might not even really like Instagram that much, but every millennial has a Facebook account, even if we never use it. You just have one because you do. And I feel like for a lot of Gen Z, they just have one because they might just want to have it to have a handle just to be able to message a few people or whatever. But the point being that it's just become a staple.

Paola Flores-Marquez (13:41):

I completely agree. And it is, once you age out of Snapchat, that's where people find you if they need to find you, and especially if you don't want to give your direct phone number. I think if Instagram can fix its social function, it would be unstoppable. It not only copies the features that other platforms put out, they do it really remarkably well in a way that feels organic to the platform. So strength on that part.

Marcus Johnson (14:08):

I think it's really important that you know... And you've just mentioned a little bit here, which is that, even though Instagram will have more users for Gen Z, TikTok will capture more time. And so, it is incredibly popular in terms of people spending time there. You write that U.S. Gen Zers, 18 to 24 that is, spending an average of 58 minutes a day on TikTok versus 45 minutes a day on Instagram. And among teens, the gap is even wider, 53 minutes on TikTok, 20 minutes on Instagram. In your research as well, Minda, you note that Gen Z is interested in interacting with creators outside of social media's walls. How so? What do you mean by this?

Minda Smiley (14:49):

We're just seeing this interesting trend play out with creators and it's definitely multifactorial, but I think as creators are like modern day celebrities for a lot of people, but definitely for Gen Z, and so I think it makes sense that they're not just going to live in social media. Of course, they're going to host live events. Of course, they're going to host exclusive dinner parties. Of course, they're going to have shows on streaming. It's a natural evolution of this sector.

(15:13):

And I also think, when we look at Gen Z in particular, they are growing up, as I said. A lot of them, they are getting older. They might have more money to spend, they have more freedom. Not as many of them are living in their parents' house anymore. So they might love the idea of going to one of their favorite podcasters' live events happening in the city they live in or whatever it might look like. So we're certainly seeing this kind of itch from them to not just follow these people within their phones and really meet them out in real life. And that's just definitely a big trend that's playing out right now.

Paola Flores-Marquez (15:43):

And I would say that they are a new celebrity, but they're also a new kind of celebrity, whereas old A-listers and movie stars were built on a mystique and some sort of an elusiveness to them. Whereas modern day influencers and creators, there's an expectation that they're going to interact with you, whether that's through polls, whether that's through AMAs, they want that, they want to carry that over.

Minda Smiley (16:06):

And to your point, there's so many more of them. There's only a certain amount of celebrities that become A-list. With creators, there's tons. And some of them are really small. They only have a few thousand followers, but they have a really niche following. It might be geographic, it might be whatever, but there's an expectation that you are going to make yourself available, whether it's through social media or in real life.

Marcus Johnson (16:27):

This idea of modern day celebrities I really like, and it speaks exactly to what you have in the piece, Minda. Over half, 52% of Gen Zers feeling a stronger connection to social media creators than TV personalities or actors. And this one floored me even more than that. You say, whilst 56% believe social content is more relevant to them than TV or movies, according to a Deloitte survey, but you say 42% of Gen Zers feeling a stronger connection to social media creators than TV personalities or actors. But 43% of millennials feel the same, stronger connection to social media creators than TV personalities or actors. And 26% of Gen X as well are feeling a stronger connection to those social media folks. So it does span generations, which I thought was fascinating. Where are they interacting with them outside of social media the most? Is there any trends going on in terms of where those creators are stepping outside of social media and hanging out with their fans?

Minda Smiley (17:25):

Yeah, I think it depends. I do think some of them are actually just hosting in-real-life events, as I said, especially the ones that might have a smaller following or they might be able to... The example I used before is podcasts. I feel like so many of the podcasters I listen to, they're always having these little live shows in different cities. So that's one way they're doing it, just actually in real life. But they're also starting their own shows on streaming services, which speaks to the blurred lines of it all.

Paola Flores-Marquez (17:51):

I think hosting their own shows, and I think it's also important to say that they have to be hosting something that's also on brand for them. There's an intersection of it. There's a couple of shows that they throw Pride parties and it's specific... They're very much, when the show is happening, it's a man on the street sort of format, and then they've pivoted that brand into something that they know their audience would love. So it has to be specific and targeted.

Minda Smiley (18:18):

Yes, exactly.

Paola Flores-Marquez (18:19):

You can't just take a random creator out of nowhere and apply that [inaudible 00:18:22].

Minda Smiley (18:21):

Yeah, for sure. It takes a little legwork. Yes.

Marcus Johnson (18:24):

That's an important take. Paola, I'll start with you for this last question. What should marketers be doing about all of this? What's one takeaway, one piece of advice for them with regards to how Gen Z are using social media and what they expect from the experience at this point?

Paola Flores-Marquez (18:43):

So I think, as I was just saying, definitely find influencers and creators that match what your vibe is or what your style is. One of the best ones I've seen recently, there's a small group of creators known as the Yard Sale Girls. They're all comedians. They do sketches. They've been taking on branded sponsorships, and they'll maneuver the brand in a seamless way organically into their content where it feels really subtle but also super interesting and it's still very entertaining. So find a brand that matches. I think they specifically were doing one for Nuuly, and so the whole sketch revolved around finding a dress for a wedding. And so, it was still their style of humor. It still felt like it was part of a regular feed, but it created brand recognition.

(19:28):

I think the other option too, or the other thing that people need to be doing is that they need to bridge the gap between social media and live events. And that doesn't mean just bringing an influencer to host your event. And it means maybe you have them in the crowd doing interviews or maybe you have them as part of a giveaway. Incorporate them in a way that's seamless without detracting from whatever the main purpose is.

Marcus Johnson (19:52):

Minda, how about for you?

Minda Smiley (19:53):

One thing I will say, and I touch on this in my report, is consider creating more episodic or series-like content for your social feeds, whether it's in partnership with creators or just your brand. And it goes back to this idea of creators are Gen Z's modern-day celebrities and social media is becoming their TV. And we're really seeing this rise of series-like content on social feeds, just watching it in a more episodic fashion. And so, a lot of brands and creators are thinking about social in that way. And it's not so much about just one-off posts and one-off videos. It's more about how can we unite around certain themes or some sort of regularity even. And so that's advice I would give.

Marcus Johnson (20:39):

For folks who aren't watching, Paola agrees [inaudible 00:20:39]

Paola Flores-Marquez (20:39):

Yeah. I think whatever you used to consider hiring a celebrity for, an old-fashioned actor or actress for, hire an influencer. I think that's essentially the new rule of thumb for this.

Marcus Johnson (20:50):

Excellent. Well, Minda's full report is called Gen Z Social Media Usage 2025 Social Media's Most Engaged Generation Also Wants a Life Outside of It. There is a conveniently placed link in the show notes or head to Emarketer.com if you want... Sorry. Not if you want, well, if you want it and you're a Pro+ subscriber. If you are not a Pro+ subscriber, what the hell are you doing with your life? Get it sorted. That's all we have time for today. Thank you so much to my guests. Thank you first to Minda.

Minda Smiley (21:17):

Thank you.

Marcus Johnson (21:18):

And to Paola.

Paola Flores-Marquez (21:18):

Thank you both. This was really fun.

Marcus Johnson (21:20):

Yes, indeed. And thank you to the whole editing crew as always, and to everyone for listening to Behind the Numbers, an EMARKETER video podcast made possible by Fetch Rewards. We'll be back on Monday, of course. Happiest of weekends.