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[00:00:56] Marcus Johnson: Welcome, everyone, to In The Game, an EMARKETER sports marketing podcast made possible [00:01:00] by AWIN. This is a conversation about the most watched sport in the world, football. I might be calling it soccer because most people who listen are American. Bill, I can tell, is already upset about it. Well, he sh- so he should be.

[00:01:11] Marcus Johnson: Hello, folks. I'm Marcus. Today, I'm alongside, over in the UK, principal analyst Bill Fisher.

[00:01:16] Bill Fisher: Hello, Marcus. I will be calling it football.

[00:01:18] Marcus Johnson: That's fair. Senior director of [00:01:20] forecasting this side of the pond, living in New York, Oscar Orozco.

[00:01:23] Oscar Orozco: Hello, listeners. Hello, Marcus. Uh, football, soccer, I'll, I'll be mixing it up today.

[00:01:28] Oscar Orozco: Okay. Hope to confuse you guys. That's gonna help.

[00:01:29] Marcus Johnson: Yeah, thanks. Today, gents, we're talking about advertising alongside the world's most popular sport. Payo Shankar of Adweek writes that the 2026 FIFA World Cup captured over [00:01:40] $10 billion in global ad spend, according to Warc Media. That's on top of the near three billion FIFA collected from its 20 official sponsors, and before counting the dozens of non-sponsor brands that piled on for free.

[00:01:50] Marcus Johnson: That's an extraordinary amount of noise fighting, uh, for the same six billion potential viewers in the same six weeks. He goes on to list some lessons that [00:02:00] CMOs can learn from the brands, uh, that, who did it right, and a few who missed opportunities along the way. So that's where we're gonna start, Mr.

[00:02:07] Marcus Johnson: Shankar noting, uh, that brands focused on broad themes. Uh, this is one of his lessons. They focused on broad themes like communal joy and the love of soccer, but maybe missed the tournament's most compelling story, underdogs, comebacks, and the drive to win. He cites, [00:02:20] uh, Cape Verde holding Spain scoreless and pushing Argentina to extra time, um, Spain and Argentina's unexpected semifinal victories.

[00:02:28] Marcus Johnson: He suggests finding the story others aren't telling and building a flexible campaign that can respond to unexpected moments as they happen, not just relying on the pre-produced stuff. So that was one of his lessons. Bill, I'll start with you. What are [00:02:40] some lessons, uh, advertising lessons from the World Cup, and how can advertisers transition from their World Cup storytelling into maybe sponsoring or the messaging for domestic leagues?

[00:02:48] Bill Fisher: Yeah, I think the, the unprepared stuff is an interesting angle. Was 2026 the creator World Cup? Mm-hmm.

[00:02:56] Marcus Johnson: Mm.

[00:02:57] Bill Fisher: Certainly, the creator platforms had a [00:03:00] bit of a moment I think YouTube sort of cited a number, one and a half billion views, I think, across the entire tournament. Wow. So lots of people tuning in, not necessarily to the games.

[00:03:13] Bill Fisher: It did have an agreement with FIFA. I think it w- it ... I can't quite remember what the deal was. It was able to show the first few minutes of [00:03:20] every game on the platform, and then it had a certain number of games that it broadcast in full. It certainly had the final. I think the final had an audience of, of over 20 million on YouTube, which isn't to be sneezed at.

[00:03:32] Bill Fisher: But I think those social moments were, were not necessarily the, about the football itself, but what was going on around the football, and [00:03:40] certainly some of the players grew their brands through the- ... through the World Cup event itself, I think. Um, I think that's something that could transition well into the, the domestic leagues.

[00:03:51] Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:03:52] Bill Fisher: Certainly from a, from a, a English Premier League perspective, there was a very successful guy, Erling Haaland, who- [00:04:00]

[00:04:00] Oscar Orozco: Mm-hmm ...

[00:04:00] Bill Fisher: does loads of interesting stuff on socials, and he, he already covers a bunch of brands in the UK. He's on the Revolut brand- Mm-hmm ... branding. That's a, one of the banking apps, neo ba- banking apps- Neo banking

[00:04:14] Bill Fisher: in the UK. He does a lot of stuff with Sky Sports already, and then the sports brands, I think he was in Nike [00:04:20] Person, right? So I think translating the, the player brands could be important.

[00:04:25] Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:04:25] Bill Fisher: Um, because play- players are increasingly becoming brands in themselves. And a- again, something I'm sure we'll talk about in, in terms of how people follow football these days.

[00:04:34] Bill Fisher: A lot of people follow players- Yeah ... not, not teams.

[00:04:37] Marcus Johnson: More so than the teams. I ... This is a real interesting one. I think b- [00:04:40] players are definitely a natural bridge between the World Cup and domestic soccer. Mr. Sjoerdsma though, Van Wijk was making an interesting point, kind of based on what you've just said, which was there's lots of players to choose from, but he notes during the World Cup everyone seemed to cast the same eight celebrities.

[00:04:54] Marcus Johnson: He said Beckham appeared in ads- Mm ... for more than 10 sponsors. Messi showed up in 25% of tournament [00:05:00] spots. And it became hard to know which brand featured which player. To your point about Erling Haaland, um, you maybe don't wanna pick someone who is in everything else, um, because ... But there are, there are so many football players, soccer players that you could potentially choose.

[00:05:14] Oscar Orozco: Yeah, I think, I think this is, uh, very anecdotal for me, but it seems to be the case across the board. [00:05:20] But so many people obviously tuned in, and we, we, we saw records being broken. But a lot of that was because of what was mentioned at the beginning here, the social media connection, right? Like, the Erling Haalands of the world, these, these players that you just mentioned that are past superstars but that still, you know, clearly do, uh, well with, with brands.

[00:05:39] Oscar Orozco: And yeah, [00:05:40] new players that, that we'll keep hearing more about. I mean, a, a nod to Ferran Torres. He scored the game-winning goal in the final for Spain, and he's doing a tour around the United States and, and meeting, you know, going on programs, day programs, night programs, giving pep talks at, you know, uh, uh, NFL teams' summer camps.

[00:05:58] Oscar Orozco: And yeah, and, uh, [00:06:00] w- you know, he's been doing it all. So I think it, it, it shows that this is a huge opportunity for players. It's always been the case, but increasingly more and more, and that's what I expect we'll see in future World Cups as well. Yeah. Because it actually will translate to interest, uh, um, when, you know, when the tournament's over as the- Yeah

[00:06:16] Oscar Orozco: as the league c- campaign start.

[00:06:18] Marcus Johnson: Paying attention to the rising stars, not [00:06:20] just the established superstars- Exactly ... as well. One thing I thought was quite interesting was this, um, campaign from Miller Lite. I don't know if they intended to do this, but I think it's quite smart 'cause some marketing items, they, they aren't tied just to the World Cup, they're tied to football.

[00:06:34] Marcus Johnson: And if it's tied to football, it is translatable across whatever, um, competition. They [00:06:40] had the Miller Time MVP Match Ball. Mm. It's a limited edition oversized soccer ball designed to hold, I think it's one and a half times as big as a soccer ball. It's designed to hold t- a 12 pack of beer. So you can kind of slot your beer cans into this football.

[00:06:53] Marcus Johnson: Uh, it's priced at $19.75, referencing the launch year- 1975. But this is something that [00:07:00] you can start selling at any tournament, any domestic league, any football event. So I thought that was interesting, um, crossover.

[00:07:07] Oscar Orozco: And I thought thinking of brands, you know, the... I don't think this was super innovative, and I agree that there maybe were some missed opportunities, although brands did well.

[00:07:16] Oscar Orozco: You know, overall it was a success of a tournament from that [00:07:20] perspective. Uh, but I think the main thing, uh, was corporate identity around kind of raw com- fan culture, right? Just, like, the passion behind, uh, football. I thought Nike's, uh, had that campaign on Rip the Script, which, um, critiqued these, like, more polished corporate campaigns and, and it just really [00:07:40] spoke to, like, authentic passion behind the sport.

[00:07:43] Oscar Orozco: And I thought to me, that was the standout campaign from, from the whole tournament. Mm-hmm.

[00:07:47] Marcus Johnson: Speaking about the, the kind of fandom of it, Bill, what, what makes football audiences unique, especially from an advertising perspective?

[00:07:53] Bill Fisher: They're incredibly tribal. That's one thing-

[00:07:55] Marcus Johnson: Yeah ...

[00:07:56] Bill Fisher: which, which can be a positive and a negative.

[00:07:58] Bill Fisher: The positive [00:08:00] part of that is they're very engaged, they're repeatable. So, you know, when you, when you head into the EPL or any league for the matter that, that runs for an entire season, they're engaged every day often. And if you are a brand linked with a specific team, you're then engaging with that- [00:08:20] base incredibly regularly

[00:08:21] Marcus Johnson: For 10 months of

[00:08:22] Bill Fisher: the year as well.

[00:08:22] Marcus Johnson: Exactly. It's a long season.

[00:08:23] Bill Fisher: But then the flip side of that is that the tribalism can, can cause issues. So I, I'm happy to admit in the past that I've refused to buy products because a rival club endorsed them, right? I'm more mature than that these days. Yeah. Um, but that must happen, right?

[00:08:37] Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Yes.

[00:08:38] Marcus Johnson: There's an element of- Ab- I mean, it's kind of brand [00:08:40] safety, so to speak. Like, yeah, if you're sponsoring Arsenal, don't expect Tottenham to buy any of your stuff.

[00:08:45] Oscar Orozco: I was gonna make the same comment. Uh, since Real Madrid has had HP on their shirt sleeve, I do not buy any of those pro- uh, products. So, um- That's 'cause a

[00:08:55] Marcus Johnson: Barcelona fan.

[00:08:56] Oscar Orozco: That's right. To add to that, I mean, it's, it's also the obvious, like this, the [00:09:00] scale, the reach, right? I mean, uh, fans are literally across the globe for some of these top teams, you know? So you can reach anyone anywhere. Um, and so there, there really is so much value behind that compared to any other sport.

[00:09:13] Oscar Orozco: Pinging to, to a report I saw from, from Nielsen as well, there was a global sports report from [00:09:20] 2025 that found that 67% of global football fans say sponsorship makes brands more appealing versus 54% of the general population. So again, to, to Bill's point here, you know, if, if you run the right campaign, the right sponsorship for the right club, I mean, this is a long-lasting relationship that- Yeah

[00:09:37] Oscar Orozco: that will, you know, yield [00:09:40] benefits.

[00:09:40] Marcus Johnson: Yeah. It's also, um, I thought this stat was stunning, but there's a new generation of fans. This came from the Premier League, so that's the English domestic league, the Premier League. That came from their website. 34% of Premier League followers have become interested in the past four years.

[00:09:58] Marcus Johnson: One third of all the [00:10:00] followers started following the league since after the pandemic Which is just absolutely incredible in terms of the potential growth, or I guess not even potential growth, actualized growth that we're seeing

[00:10:11] Bill Fisher: Following them on a social, you mean?

[00:10:13] Marcus Johnson: Just following the league in, in any way, shape, or form.

[00:10:15] Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm. Yeah, engaged, anything engaged with the league. Okay. Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, not necessarily watching a [00:10:20] match, but yeah, could be engaging in social media or something to that effect.

[00:10:23] Bill Fisher: So that's, that speaks to that, those creative performers again, right? Yeah. And all these people creating content around sports.

[00:10:30] Bill Fisher: Mm-hmm. IShowSpeed, for example, was a hugely popular figure around the World Cup, and there were a few unsavory incidents that sort of helped boost [00:10:40] his, his profile. Um- Mm-hmm ... not, not because of him, but you know, these are the people that speak to these younger generations, and so- Yeah ... perhaps not surprising that these numbers are increasing, um- Yeah

[00:10:52] Bill Fisher: m- more recently as kids get involved. And my sons both grew up, went through the pandemic playing FIFA, the game, you [00:11:00] know, on their PlayStations, and that got them into... I mean, they were already into football. Like, lots of their friends are into football, and that's where the player loyalty comes in as well.

[00:11:08] Bill Fisher: You know- Mm-hmm ... they wanted to be Cristiano Ronaldo or Leo Messi, and they started following these players. And so Cristiano Ronaldo has been all around Europe. Um, when he was [00:11:20] a Juventus player, my boys were Juventus fans. When he was a Real Madrid player, they were Real Madrid fans. Same with Messi, now he's in the US, you know, he's a, a Miami, he could be Miami fans.

[00:11:29] Bill Fisher: So it's really interesting, but not surprising.

[00:11:32] Marcus Johnson: Speaking about your sons engaging, um, and talking about a new generation of fans, y- if you go to a game, watch a game on TV, you look in the stands, you will [00:11:40] see people from age two all the way up to 100. I mean, it really does. It's, it's not like it's a certain demographic, and that's it.

[00:11:48] Marcus Johnson: Everybody, um, across all the ages i- is a football fan. So that's what makes football audiences unique, especially from an advertiser perspective. The other thing I want to touch on there is you mentioned Cristiano Ronaldo. This audience have [00:12:00] enormous, enormous social media followings. Mm-hmm. Uh, so according, I went and looked, according to Sports Illustrated, eight of the top 10 most followed sports players on Instagram, soccer players.

[00:12:10] Marcus Johnson: Cristiano Ronaldo, number one, nearly 700 million- ... followers on Instagram. Messi, 500 million. Then it's a [00:12:20] former India cricket captain, makes sense, Virat Kohli, uh, 273. Neymar Jr., back to football, uh, 242, and then LeBron James, for an American reference, he's fifth with 150.

[00:12:30] Bill Fisher: Those numbers, I, I'm pretty sure some of those numbers, certainly the top end, are bigger than club followings.

[00:12:37] Bill Fisher: Oh, right. And some clubs don't have that many supporters. I'm

[00:12:39] Oscar Orozco: sure. Yeah, [00:12:40] yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Mm-hmm. To, to your point, Bill, it's like, depends on where the player goes- Mm-hmm ... and people just follow him. It doesn't matter what the team is. I would add one other thing. I mean, there really is no sport like soccer, like football, that is 365 days a year, 24/7.

[00:12:57] Oscar Orozco: The off-seasons have increasingly gotten shorter and shorter. [00:13:00] It's not just about the games. We talked about the tie-ins to social media, the meme culture, the highlights. For example, here in the US, Peacock, it was an amazing idea, and I think they've done well with it, but when you turn on the stream, you can see, like, the top 10 plays of a match if you're catching up, which means, you know, you can get...

[00:13:17] Oscar Orozco: You know, watch the game a little bit late, and you can [00:13:20] catch up that way. So just this, uh, these quick clips, which I think football is perfect for, i- is great. And the, and the, the, I said the short off-season cycle. There's news about transfers. You know, there's just so much interest about transfers and player movement and- Mm-hmm

[00:13:35] Oscar Orozco: uh, you know, players switching teams essentially. That'd be

[00:13:37] Marcus Johnson: like free agency for-

[00:13:38] Oscar Orozco: Free agency ... American sports.

[00:13:39] Marcus Johnson: [00:13:40] Mm-hmm.

[00:13:40] Oscar Orozco: Exactly. And the YouTube personalities and the Twitch personalities. So there's just so much content. And yeah, as you said, I mean, just the age ranges are, are so massive-

[00:13:50] Marcus Johnson: Yeah ...

[00:13:51] Oscar Orozco: uh, that it's scale.

[00:13:52] Oscar Orozco: It's, it's, it's incredible, actually.

[00:13:54] Marcus Johnson: Content's certainly the word. Um, Bill, I did a quick search. Uh, Manchester United, one of the most popular clubs, uh, [00:14:00] less than 70 million Instagram followers. So Ronaldo with, uh, a lot more. Well, speaking about scale, so I wanna talk a bit about what number best encapsulates the advertising opportunity within the Premier League, and one of them, for me, is just the sheer size of the audience.

[00:14:13] Marcus Johnson: So the Premier League website notes an incredible near 2 billion people follow the Premier League worldwide, [00:14:20] interacting at least weekly. This isn't, oh, they've seen, you know, a minute one time during the season. Weekly engagement, uh, in some form or fashion. If you expand the audience to how many people check in at some point during the season, it becomes 3 billion.

[00:14:33] Marcus Johnson: On top of that, there are some mind-blowing numbers within that audience. There's an article from The Economist noting the English Premier League, uh, as [00:14:40] global cultural powerhouse broadcast. This is to what Oscar, speaks to what Oscar was saying earlier. Broadcast to 191 of the UN's 193 member states. Over 700 million people may tune in to watch a single game between top teams.

[00:14:53] Marcus Johnson: They know the Super Bowl attracts a third of that. In cricket-mad India, more people watch the Premier League. In India, [00:15:00] 70 million, than there are people in the UK. Total people. Wow. And last one here. According to Google's worldwide trends data, last year more people searched for Manchester United, the club we just mentioned, than Taylor Swift and the Harry Potter book series combined.

[00:15:12] Oscar Orozco: I saw a stat about the, um, the broadcast rights, I believe, for the p- for the EPL, the English Premier League. I think about [00:15:20] f- I think it was 54% of revenue comes from international markets. Yeah. And when you see that, you almost have to wonder, there's a lot more room there for growth. I mean, just, just when you think of, as you said earlier, the, the population, you know.

[00:15:34] Oscar Orozco: When you compare ob- obviously the UK to the rest of the world , uh, there's the potential to, to really grow that. [00:15:40] Um, you know, and of course, here in the US e- even so. Um, we saw some incredible numbers with the World Cup, but there are still plenty of households there to that, that, uh- Yeah ... you know, soccer and football can reach.

[00:15:50] Marcus Johnson: It's a very international sport. Um, and even within, in these European leagues, these major European leagues, um, there's the Premier League in the UK, [00:16:00] there's La Liga in Spain, there's the Bundesliga in Germany. Is it Ser- Serie A? Is that how you pronounce it? Yeah. For Italy. And then France. What am I missing?

[00:16:07] Marcus Johnson: Um-

[00:16:08] Bill Fisher: Ligue 1. Ligue 1.

[00:16:09] Marcus Johnson: Within those, there's a pool of international players, influences. This was in The Economist as well. Some 75% of the league's minutes, Premier League, were racked up by foreign-born [00:16:20] players. So three quarters of the amount of minutes played in the Premier League from foreign-born players.

[00:16:24] Marcus Johnson: Germany is 62%, still incredibly high. Uh, Spain 44%. The NFL, American football, 97% of the players' uh, minutes are from Americans. The NBA is about 75%. And I thought this was a really interesting note in terms of [00:16:40] how international this sport is. The Economist saying on May 19th, Arsenal clinched the league title.

[00:16:45] Marcus Johnson: Congratulations Nicole, my sister. She's a huge fan. Uh, it's been like over 20 years, so a big deal. Sorry, Bill. Sorry. Bill's shaking

[00:16:51] Oscar Orozco: his head.

[00:16:51] Marcus Johnson: Ah, yeah.

[00:16:52] Oscar Orozco: No. I'm perfectly fine with it.

[00:16:54] Marcus Johnson: That's true. But the, The Economist was saying the presidents of both Kenya and Rwanda [00:17:00] took to social media to congratulate the team.

[00:17:02] Marcus Johnson: In Botswana, the government had to debunk fake news about a bank holiday for Arsenal fans.

[00:17:11] Bill Fisher: That's incredible.

[00:17:11] Marcus Johnson: Which maybe they should have got a bank holiday. It's been a long time. But, um, I thought it was a funny anecdote how, how international the game is.

[00:17:19] Bill Fisher: It's the world [00:17:20] game. That's right. That's why we should call it football.

[00:17:22] Marcus Johnson: That's

[00:17:23] Bill Fisher: right. I agree. That's, um, that's true. Yeah. An interesting point actually on the, on the EPL, um, and the power of the brand. Every five years there's a company called Yonder Consulting, and they do a, something called the British Icon Index. The last one was done in 2023, and it's, as I say, it's [00:17:40] every five years, so we've got a couple of years to wait for the next one.

[00:17:42] Bill Fisher: But the Premier League is the number one asset- Across more than 50% of the countries where it polls, and, and covers countries across North America, South America, Middle East, uh, Asia, Oceania. And in over 50% of those countries, the Premier League was the number one asset. It was the [00:18:00] top brand across the board broadly for all- Wow

[00:18:03] Bill Fisher: UK brands. So that's including the BBC, it's against the universities, against- Wow ... retailers like Harrods, uh, Jaguar Land Rover. Above all of those- The Premier League is the number one asset, and this is measuring things like [00:18:20] familiarity, favorability- Mm-hmm ... perceived success, things like that. It's incredibly powerful brand.

[00:18:25] Bill Fisher: So it's no wonder it's able to, uh, attract these huge rights.

[00:18:28] Marcus Johnson: That's so interesting as well because you said perceived success. Um, I was looking it up. Four... Last year, only four out of the 20 clubs in the Premier League turned a [00:18:40] pre-tax profit. Hmm. However, the Premier League revenue from 2019 to today has gone from $5 billion to 8 billion, according to data from Deloitte.

[00:18:50] Marcus Johnson: So it is a league that is on a rocket ship in terms of revenue. Maybe more of those teams will start to generate a profit as more money comes into the league, but- Mm-hmm ... that speaks, yeah, again, to [00:19:00] how powerful it

[00:19:01] Bill Fisher: is. No, they won't generate a profit.

[00:19:02] Marcus Johnson: Oh, okay. It's just

[00:19:03] Bill Fisher: gonna go into player wages.

[00:19:05] Marcus Johnson: That's probably true, yeah.

[00:19:06] Oscar Orozco: And some of the owners don't seem to care, right? This is just kind of- Yeah ... like a fun thing for them to have- Yeah ... 'cause more and more b- billionaire o- owners in the league as well. I

[00:19:14] Marcus Johnson: think it's about two-thirds. I was reading two-thirds of the money goes to player wages. Some of the bigger clubs, it's about 75% [00:19:20] of all the dollars goes into paying these guys.

[00:19:22] Marcus Johnson: Speaking about, um, paying these guys in different clubs, um, Oscar, any thoughts on kind of the, the global clubs, the global powerhouses, the Barcelonas, who you support, the PSGs, Paris Saint-Germain, the Bayern Munichs, and how, um, they themselves can be a marketing vehicle?

[00:19:36] Oscar Orozco: A lot of people out there th- th- are, hate to see how the [00:19:40] game has evolved a bit and, and I guess what I'm, what I'm saying here is that the top clubs in these top leagues, you know, we, we do call it the top five leagues in Europe, uh, the ones you mentioned earlier.

[00:19:50] Oscar Orozco: The top clubs, I mean, they make up most of the revenue. Most of the po- They're the most popular clubs, you know, from a social media standpoint, from a viewership [00:20:00] numbers to TV rights, all, all of that, and it's gotten more top-heavy. Um, in the EPL there's the top six teams. You know, from La, La Liga's standpoint it's, it's two teams, Barcelona and Real Madrid.

[00:20:11] Oscar Orozco: So, you know, kind of like what we mentioned earlier about superstars increasingly driving the popularity of, of the sport. We're, we're seeing that with these top [00:20:20] teams. And because of the scale, these teams are becoming the more popular teams, uh, across the globe. You know, what you mentioned earlier, Rwanda, you know, they, the, the Arsenal's super popular there.

[00:20:30] Oscar Orozco: And, you know, you have, uh, Real Madrid's very popular in Mexico. And it can make for a little bit of an uncompetitive, uh, you know, league structure, but so far it, it's, [00:20:40] it's working and- Mm-hmm ... um, I think, again, uh, the smaller clubs are hiding behind these large clubs and kind of riding the, the waves there because it's just bringing- Yeah

[00:20:48] Oscar Orozco: more and more, uh, money into the, into the leagues.

[00:20:51] Marcus Johnson: That's been the case- To a certain extent in bask- I mean, the last seven or eight years it's been a different champion every year with basketball. But the dynasties are what [00:21:00] the league has seen forever, whether it was the Celtics dynasty, Russell, Lakers had one, San Antonio for a spurt, obviously the Chicago Bulls, who you support- Mm-hmm

[00:21:08] Marcus Johnson: um, the Warriors. So it's not as top-heavy, especially now. It's a lot more equitable. But yeah, it, it, it wasn't always.

[00:21:15] Oscar Orozco: I mean, and the NBA is a great example. I mean, that's working, right? Eight different [00:21:20] champs for the last eight years- Yeah ... I think, right? Yeah,

[00:21:22] Marcus Johnson: exactly. So

[00:21:22] Oscar Orozco: I think time will tell what, what really is healthier for the league.

[00:21:25] Oscar Orozco: But, you know- Mm ... so far there's just... When, when there's such exponential growth, you know, it's, it's hard to wanna make any massive changes. Yeah. But, you know, we'll see how that all settles.

[00:21:36] Marcus Johnson: So we've been talking a lot about, uh, we talked about the World [00:21:40] Cup, uh, and then across the ponds, uh, 'cause it was hosted in North America, across the pond into Europe, and, uh, looked at some of the, the major leagues there.

[00:21:47] Marcus Johnson: Let's hop back across the Atlantic, uh, and talk about the domestic league in America. So Mark, uh, Mucciaro of Adweek writes that Radhika Dougal, the Major League Soccer [00:22:00] CMO, in conjunction with FIFA and Fox Sports, created watch parties as a strategic effort to keep the league top of mind during the global tournament being hosted, uh, in North America.

[00:22:08] Marcus Johnson: And now the MLS wants to keep the ball rolling, uh, and the league has launched its largest coordinated marketing campaign in history. Oscar, I'll start with you 'cause you're over in the US. What makes the MLS attractive compared [00:22:20] to the more established European leagues?

[00:22:22] Oscar Orozco: I think to start, it's, it's in the US.

[00:22:25] Oscar Orozco: Uh, consumerism, you know, it just, there's a lot of money up for grabs. So- Mm ... I think that's, that's the main reason. I mean, the MLS has evolved and it's become more and more like the European leagues over the years. It's hard, you [00:22:40] know, to, not to have that. I mean, I still remember the, the late '90s and they were just trying to change the sport, and that didn't work.

[00:22:46] Oscar Orozco: But, you know, they, they run a little, like a, an American sports league in a way, you know, for good and for bad. But I think from a investment brand standpoint, that's, that's not a bad thing. This, this Apple TV, TV deal they [00:23:00] have, I think- Mm ... is beneficial to all the clubs. It's run in a more democratized collectivism type of way.

[00:23:07] Oscar Orozco: The, the, the money is spread a- around everybody, and it has made for team valuations, um, that they've been growing. I mean, I think some of the top teams are worth, like, a billion dollars now, which is really incredible. There's a lot of opportunities [00:23:20] there, and, and the MLS is still growing. There's, you know, it's still in its early years.

[00:23:24] Oscar Orozco: We talk about European leagues being over 100, and, uh, the EPL's... Well, the EPL was rebranded, but, uh, the English league is, like, 140 years old. Yeah. Correct me if I'm wrong on that. So, you know, w- ways to go there for the MLS. But, uh, there's a lot to like there- It's a good point ... and [00:23:40] hopefully growth. Yeah.

[00:23:40] Marcus Johnson: Yeah. A lot of growth, yeah. Yeah, they get a bit of a bad rap, but they're a baby in terms of- They're a baby ... yeah. We were talking as well, uh, before we hit record, the, uh, MLS shifting. Normally, that's a summer league, I'd imagine, so it doesn't have to compete with the other major, four major American sports.

[00:23:53] Marcus Johnson: But they're gonna be shifting, uh, as of next season, 2027, 2028 season, to how the other football [00:24:00] clubs, soccer clubs around the world do it, which is from kind of September to April. So we'll see how successful that... I'm surprised that they're gonna compete- It's a- ... with all those, so that- ...

[00:24:07] Oscar Orozco: bold, bold move, bold move.

[00:24:09] Oscar Orozco: Yeah. But they must, you know, internal data must show that they have a, a very loyal fan base, or at least the fan base they could count on to come back- Yeah ... every season is there. Yeah. And so [00:24:20] that's great news. But it would be- So, so when,

[00:24:21] Bill Fisher: sorry, when did it run? It used to run across the summer.

[00:24:24] Oscar Orozco: Yeah, I think it's, I might be wrong here, like March, April through the summer, right, to, to December.

[00:24:30] Oscar Orozco: I believe kind of- Mm ... the league cup games were, like, in December So totally off of the, the European schedule.

[00:24:36] Bill Fisher: So, so what happened during a World Cup or the Africa Cup [00:24:40] of Nations or something like that? What... Did, did they close the league down to allow for that?

[00:24:43] Oscar Orozco: I was surprised to see Messi already playing, like, a week after the World Cup- Mm

[00:24:48] Oscar Orozco: it seemed like. Yeah. Uh, so they, they paused it and then- Okay ... I think they picked it up really- So I've-

[00:24:52] Marcus Johnson: Yeah ... just checked, yeah, Oscar's spot on. So starting in February, runs through till just before, uh, basically November, um, with [00:25:00] a pause from mid-May to mid-July. They will have a break for the mid-December, I think, to the start of February I was reading.

[00:25:07] Marcus Johnson: Um, there's obviously the, the Super Bowl going on and a ton of, uh, American football playoff games. Uh, so they won't be competing with those whilst they're happening or Christmas Day games and things like that for basketball, so.

[00:25:17] Oscar Orozco: There was a recent survey I, I saw that [00:25:20] showed in the US soccer, football, was battling with baseball for the ti- you know, the third most popular sport in the country.

[00:25:28] Oscar Orozco: Oh. Um-

[00:25:28] Marcus Johnson: Yeah ...

[00:25:28] Oscar Orozco: right? Um- And that's

[00:25:29] Marcus Johnson: self-reported. That's, they asked, right? I saw that. Yeah. They've asked Americans what's your favorite sport and- Mm ... Oscar's spot on. I think 10% of Americans said soccer.

[00:25:39] Oscar Orozco: Mm.

[00:25:39] Marcus Johnson: Uh, and it [00:25:40] was 9% for baseball, right? It was that close. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:25:43] Oscar Orozco: It was super close. Well below, you know, the NFL and- Yeah

[00:25:45] Oscar Orozco: and the NBA but- Yeah. I mean, just like two, three years ago- Yeah ... I think he was outside the top five, so.

[00:25:52] Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Baseball, America's pastime, as it is often referred. Mm-hmm. Um, but pastime just means the way to pass the time, and it seems like that's no longer, that's no [00:26:00] longer the case. Last thing I'll mention with MLS, they've done a really good job of trying to use all of that excitement from the World Cup and, and springboard that into the season.

[00:26:07] Marcus Johnson: They had a new campaign, "Thanks, world. We'll take it from here," uh, inviting fans to continue their soccer journey with the MLS, and that Adweek piece I was reading noting all 30 clubs launching promotional initiatives and sp- uh, special offers to welcome new [00:26:20] fans, including first match on us from, uh, 22 clubs, uh, which provide complimentary tickets to first-time attendees, which I thought was very clever.

[00:26:28] Marcus Johnson: Let's end with the next World Cup, which is the Women's World Cup. Bill, I'll start with you here. What should we be paying most attention to as our attention turns to the 2027 FIFA Women's [00:26:40] World Cup?

[00:26:40] Bill Fisher: I'm a big fan of the women's game. I think it's very competitive, very entertaining. The women's game needs to be a little bit careful that it walks before it can run.

[00:26:51] Bill Fisher: So what we've seen, if, if I can just bring things back to, to England for a moment, so we have the WSL over here, the Women's Super League, [00:27:00] and it, it's doing really well. It's, it's seen a huge increase in crowds. It's seen increase in revenues. It, increase in advertising revenues coming from the game, but it's hit a blip, so that growth has slowed.

[00:27:13] Bill Fisher: And I think what's important with the women's game, and Oscar mentioned earlier how long we've had the, the, [00:27:20] the, the old first division, second, third, fourth divisions in England. Hundreds, over 100 year, years. Mm-hmm. The women's game is much younger than that. I think in some quarters there is a desire for the women's game to be on level footing with the men's game.

[00:27:35] Bill Fisher: The biggest superstars should be sa- paid the same. Um, they should be playing in [00:27:40] the stadia. For an event like the World Cup, in the European championships we had, uh, that were held in the UK a couple years ago, the crowds were huge. But for the domestic leagues, that, that hasn't been main- maintained. Mm-hmm.

[00:27:53] Bill Fisher: And so I think it's better- For the Premier League women's team versions, so Chelsea have a team, Liverpool, Man [00:28:00] United, all league teams have a, a women's team. It's better for them to play in smaller stadiums and fill them rather than play-

[00:28:08] Oscar Orozco: Mm-hmm ...

[00:28:08] Bill Fisher: in 60, 70,000 stadia that are only half or a quarter full.

[00:28:14] Bill Fisher: Equally with the commercial aspect of it, build it, but slowly. You know, it, it's not [00:28:20] going to perform as well as the men's version- Mm ... of the World Cup. It won't, and I don't think that's a bad thing. I think- Mm-hmm ... it's important it's not viewed as a failure, but build it slowly. It's growing. Um, in the UK for example, the grassroots, uh, football, so, you know, on the parks around the country, more and more girls are getting involved.[00:28:40]

[00:28:40] Bill Fisher: I, I coach a local club. We have girls teams in nearly every age group now. Um- Wow. Of

[00:28:46] Marcus Johnson: course ...

[00:28:47] Bill Fisher: it's becoming increasingly popular, and it will grow, but it should be allowed to grow naturally. Yeah, yeah. And that's where success- Sustainably ... will

[00:28:54] Marcus Johnson: come from. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. It shouldn't be rushed.

[00:28:56] Oscar Orozco: To be honest, I think the WNBA should be [00:29:00] used as a model for these leagues- Agreed

[00:29:01] Oscar Orozco: which is, it's- Exactly ... odd to say, right? But, uh, it might be the one situation for, for soccer where it should look across the pond to, to see how maybe to grow a, a, a women's sports league successfully. You know, I agree. I- it's not quite there yet. There's a lot... I mean, we're seeing transfer fees of [00:29:20] players over a, you know, a million euros and, or definitely b- uh, uh, close to that in pounds in, in Europe.

[00:29:27] Oscar Orozco: The women's soccer league here in the US signed a four-year deal, media deal for, uh, $240 million. So the, you know, there, there's a lot of money in, in, in the sport already. But quickly on [00:29:40] the World Cup, I think, um, you know, it, it's great. Here in the US, Netflix has the rights, if I'm not mistaken. I think that will...

[00:29:47] Oscar Orozco: That's super interesting. I think, I think we're gonna see some, you know, record-breaking numbers there. Um, I'm a huge fan as well. I've been following for a long time, so I'll be tuning in. Mm-hmm. Um, and w- you know, you [00:30:00] mentioned it earlier, Marcus, my Spanish roots. I think the biggest theme is, uh, Bill, England, Spain.

[00:30:05] Oscar Orozco: Are we gonna get a third final in a row? Uh- ... Spain beat England at the last World Cup. England won the Euros, the two years ago I'm fed

[00:30:14] Bill Fisher: up with the Spanish, man. I'm fed up with them. I, I read this, I don't know if this is true, you can put me right. Um, [00:30:20] but I, I read some stat recently, and I can't remember the exact number.

[00:30:23] Bill Fisher: But of all the competitions- Mm-hmm ... that Spanish football has been in, so across all the women's competitions, the youth competitions, and the men's competitions- Mm ... they have won something like 17 titles in the past- ... four or five years. They've just dominated- That's a [00:30:40] lot ... across the board. I'm fed up

[00:30:43] Marcus Johnson: with

[00:30:43] Oscar Orozco: them, man.

[00:30:43] Oscar Orozco: Too much. Well- Well, this is why- You said it, not me. Uh- Yeah ... but yes, yes, this is true.

[00:30:47] Marcus Johnson: This is why I'm an England, uh, fan for the women's team more so than the men now. 'Cause our England women's team actually win things. They've won- Yeah ... the European Cup the last- Yeah ... two times. Uh, so hopefully we can get a World Cup, um, next year in Brazil.

[00:30:59] Marcus Johnson: And

[00:30:59] Oscar Orozco: it'll be [00:31:00] great in Brazil where, you know- Yeah ... just to have it. Um, I believe it's the first time it's been held in South America, so- Yeah ... a lot of interesting storylines there and-

[00:31:07] Marcus Johnson: Yeah ... hopefully- And for US audiences it will be t- uh, an easy time zone An

[00:31:11] Oscar Orozco: easy time zone, and- Mm-hmm ... you know, uh- Solid

[00:31:14] Oscar Orozco: just to

[00:31:14] Bill Fisher: see- I just hope they're in it 'cause there's, there's all this Euro around Gianni Infantino- True ... and a [00:31:20] lot of the European members of FIFA are threatening to pull out.

[00:31:23] Oscar Orozco: Mm-hmm.

[00:31:24] Marcus Johnson: Mm.

[00:31:24] Oscar Orozco: Yeah. It's been- Mm. This will be a real shame ... a bit quiet on that front the last week, too, so-

[00:31:28] Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Mm.

[00:31:28] Oscar Orozco: Yeah ... still a lot of time, but we'll, we'll see Keep an

[00:31:30] Marcus Johnson: eye on that.

[00:31:31] Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Keep an eye on it. Yeah. I'll end with this, uh, speaking about the women's game. Nearly one billion people tuned in to watch at least a minute of live coverage on traditional [00:31:40] TV for FIFA Women's World Cup. Half a billion people stayed to watch at least 20 consecutive minutes or more, so just huge audiences.

[00:31:47] Marcus Johnson: The finals generated a live reach of over 220 million viewers globally. Um, so it is a huge audience, but growing. And that'll do it. Hope to see everyone for In the Game next month. Thank you to Mike, [00:32:00] Lance, and John helping us with the production for this episode. Of course, thanks to my guests, Bill-

[00:32:04] Bill Fisher: It was a pleasure.

[00:32:05] Bill Fisher: Thanks for having me ...

[00:32:06] Marcus Johnson: yes, of course, and to Oscar.

[00:32:07] Oscar Orozco: Thanks for having me, Marcus.

[00:32:08] Marcus Johnson: Yes, sir, and to everyone listening in to In the Game, an EMARKETER Sports Marketing podcast made possible by AWIN. I hope to see you tomorrow for more behind the [00:32:20] numbers.