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Suzy Davidkhanian (00:00):

Consumers skip ads, but they don't skip rewards. Fetch drives performance with over 12.5 million monthly active users and over 11.5 million receipts scanned daily, capturing 88% of household spend. Your brand becomes the reward, earning real engagement, verified purchases, and loyalty. Fetch, America's rewards app where brands are the center of joy.

(00:26):

Hello, listeners. Today is Wednesday, October 8th. Welcome to eMarketer's weekly retail show, Reimagining Retail, an eMarketer podcast made possible by Fetch Rewards. This is the show where we talk about retail and how it collides with every part of our lives. I'm your guest host, Suzy Davidkhanian. And on today's episode, we're diving into a brand that's hitting a milestone. Primark recently celebrated its 10-year anniversary in the US.

(00:56):

But before we do that, let's meet our guests. Today, joining me for this episode, I'm really excited that we have Rene Federico who leads marketing for Primark in the US joining us from Boston. Hello, Rene.

Rene Federico (01:09):

Hi. Thanks for having me.

Suzy Davidkhanian (01:10):

Thanks so much for joining us. And also, we have Carina Perkins, senior analyst covering retail in the UK and Western Europe, joining us from across the pond. Hi, Carina.

Carina Perkins (01:20):

Hi, Suzy. Great to be on as always.

Suzy Davidkhanian (01:22):

We're so happy to have you back. So in Europe, everybody knows that Primark is shorthand for affordable fashion. It's practically a cultural institution. It's the kind of place where you can walk in and walk out with a whole new outfit for the price of a single sweater in some other outlets. It's really known as a destination. It's known for the queues that it has around the block on opening days. It's a treasure hunt shopping across massive, massive footprints, multi-floor stores, and it's always, always on when it comes to trends. It's really driven by its product selection. And for many shoppers in the UK and in Ireland especially, it's really not just a store, it's part of a routine.

(02:10):

In the US, the path has been a little bit different. Awareness is still growing, stores are steadily expanding, and more and more shoppers are stumbling across Primark for the first time, whether it's in their local mall or on TikTok with a haul. And 10 years in, it feels like the perfect moment to pause and ask what's working? What still needs to click? And what lessons can every global retailer take from a value brand that's managed to stick to its own playbook in a super competitive market?

(02:39):

So with that, let's get started. At the top, I think I did paint a little picture of what Primark is in Europe, but I'd love to hear more about what makes Primark Primark here in the US, Rene, if we can get started with that.

Rene Federico (02:52):

Sure. I think what makes Primark Primark in the US is really still about incredible fashion, quality, and unbelievable value. But it's more than price, I think, and that sort of triad, that proposition. It really is kind of a feeling that shopping our stores allows our customers. And it's sort of that discovery when you walk in our stores, the breadth of categories, everything under one roof, everything under one roof within your budget. So it really comes down to a really sharp focus on our in-store experience and our ability to make fashion accessible without compromise.

(03:29):

And I think sometimes we sort of get mistaken as sort of an off-price retailer. We're not, we're a best-price retailer that's able to offer current trends and styles at the most affordable price without making our customers compromise and have to buy last season's styles or wait for a discount cycle. And I think that's what makes us us in the US and it's part of what you described is a legacy that we're very proud of in the UK and in Ireland.

Suzy Davidkhanian (03:58):

And Carina, we've talked about this several times now over the years, around that Primark buzz and it's really felt by consumers in the UK. Is it driven by the value trend proposition or is there a circularity element too? Because Primark is leaning really heavily into that message as well.

Carina Perkins (04:17):

Yeah, I think it's interesting. I think it's all of the above really. Primark kind of came onto the scene and was very much a budget retailer. It really established itself as a high street champion as well. And where we've seen a lot of other high street stores fall away in the UK, some of them have had problems, they've closed down, Primark has always been there. So it's been a really nice constant on British high streets and it's remained very, very dedicated to brick and mortar and that in-store experience.

(04:46):

And I think that really resonates with the British public because although we are quite prolific online shoppers, we really love to shop in stores. We love to go to the high street on the weekend. We love to have a cup of coffee and go shopping with our friends. And I think Primark has always been there.

(04:59):

And I think what's really interesting more recently is it's not just a budget retailer anymore. It's really lifted itself up and it's got that sustainability message. It's viewed as a kind of quality retailer as well. And I think that is why it's so loved by the British public because it's not just somewhere super cheap to go and get clothes. It's somewhere affordable to go and get clothes that, like we said, are kind of on trend and have a nice shopping experience.

Suzy Davidkhanian (05:25):

So Rene, it's the exact same thing, right? You're tying the same message globally regardless, and you're in a lot of markets too. So regardless of the market, this is one of the north stars for Primark.

Rene Federico (05:36):

Yeah. I think that's universal in terms of that is also what sort of clicks immediately for our US consumer is that value for style equation. They love that they can update their wardrobe, buy everything on their list, shop for every season without overspending. I think where we still have work to do is to help make more US consumers aware of that special experience. And essentially where we are a household name in the UK and Ireland, we're still sort of a best known secret here in the US, right? So that's part of the job that we have to do is really help the US customer understand the scale and the fashion credibility that we have, the breadth that we offer, and the exceptional store experience. And really, our opportunity is kind of shorten that distance between inspiring them and converting them as a customer.

Suzy Davidkhanian (06:36):

Well, and if it's not too much of a secret, can you tell us a little bit more about how you're getting there? Because it really is a best kept secret where Americans don't necessarily, everybody doesn't necessarily know the brand or to even have it in their fold of awareness. How are you getting there? Is it through TikTok?

Rene Federico (06:54):

I think, yeah, we're using every channel and platform that we can to spread that message. We've been investing now for the last year or so in really building that awareness. And we've put a sharp focus on the New York market really because it's our most store dense market here in the US. And our hope is that we can build awareness there and then work on how that radiates out across our other key markets in the US.

(07:24):

And we've been using a combination of channels and platforms, streaming TV, certainly social, certainly online media, to be able to put our message in the path of consumers and help kind of, I like to say you have to fill the top of the funnel to deliver the bottom of the funnel. We really have work to do to fill that top of the funnel and really kind of create brand perception, so that perception then drives the desire to shop our stores.

Suzy Davidkhanian (07:56):

Yeah, feed into the brand love.

Rene Federico (07:57):

Absolutely.

Suzy Davidkhanian (07:58):

One of the other things you said that was fascinating is you're trying to, you are moving from awareness to conversion in a more quick pace. However, you're not really selling online, it's a much more e-commerce light. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? Because that is definitely very different. Carina can talk to us a little bit more about what that looks like in the UK because it's vastly different than here.

Rene Federico (08:21):

I would say just our website and digital experience is very much part of our overall experience for the US consumer. But you're right, we don't have right now the ability to transact online. And then I will, Carina, I'm sure you can speak more to some of what we're doing in the UK around that. We're also watching to understand what learnings come from that.

Carina Perkins (08:43):

Yeah, I think Primark's strategy in the UK has been really, really clever actually because during the COVID lockdowns we saw a lot of brands try and shift online, expand their fulfillment. It's a very expensive thing to do and Primark kind of stuck by its guns and remain dedicated to brick and mortar. And I think it's really benefited from that because it's managed to keep its value proposition. And when we've then had this kind of post-lockdown financial difficulties in the US, people have really turned to Primark and they've gone back to shopping in stores.

(09:13):

But what Primark has done really well then is click and collect, which obviously reduces a lot of the costs for them. It's less margin intensive than doing something like delivery. And I think that has been a really successful strategy in the UK because they've already started expanding that to more stores and more categories.

(09:31):

But they've taken a really kind of clever test and learn approach. So they've started with one category and then rolled it out to another category. And I think it really has been where they've had an advantage over some other low-cost retailers, especially the kind of pure players like ASOS and boohoo who are all online. People actually do like coming into a store, they like to be able to return things in a store. Click and collect is great because it means that they can have a look online and make sure that when they get to the store that item is available to them. And in the UK, we love a bit of click and collect. But I think Primark have kind of gone about that strategy. It's been really clever.

Suzy Davidkhanian (10:08):

So the website, Rene, is really like a magazine, right? It's more like a place to be inspired, to see what the products are. And then you put where your location is to then go to the store and make the purchase?

Rene Federico (10:21):

Yeah, we look at it as a key component of our overall shopping experience, whether it's a store locator or a stock check or for inspiration. Again, like I said, we're trying to sort of build a journey between inspiration and conversion. We can editorialize our products and collections and seasonal stories. We can hype our collaborations, give more tactile ways for our customers here in the US to interact with the brand and inspire them to shop our stores.

(10:52):

We can also use it as a very powerful tool to kind of measure intent and understand what it is that customers are looking for, how our CRM efforts are performing, where we have the opportunity to do more storytelling, where we have the opportunity to get out of the way and really just let customers get to the information that they need. And in the US, we're always exploring ways to serve our customer better in ways that we can look at the US business overall and really understand, hey, what do we need to do to kind of continue grow and be a player in retail here in the US?

Suzy Davidkhanian (11:26):

It's fascinating because as you were talking, I was like, "Oh, it's even more than a storytelling product, story vision board." It's also a great place for you to see failed searches or what locations are people typing in so that you can see maybe where you built your next set of stores. It is really an all-inclusive place to get information and to help service the customer.

(11:48):

But storytelling is at the heart of everything. So when you think about it, whether on your website or whether it's through all the different digital channels, how are you leaning into some of the cultural moments in the different markets in the US?

Rene Federico (12:02):

Well, I think, like you said, at the heart of what we need to do is build perception for our brand. And that is what is going to drive consumers and different audiences to want to participate with us in some way. And there's a spectrum between the transactional and the emotional. And our plans and strategies really look across that spectrum and say, "Okay, in what ways, channels, platforms, messages, do we capture hearts and minds? And in what ways and channels and platforms do we capture wallets?" And that has been what our focus is from building our brand campaigns, building and execute our brand campaigns right down to working on strategies that help optimize across the full funnel.

(12:44):

Ultimately though, the question I ask every day is how can we become more connected and become less interchangeable with other retailers that may look like they have a similar proposition, whether it's good pricing or trends or other avenues of affordability? So we are looking across all the difference in channels and platforms.

(13:06):

I think for the US specifically, we're able to tap into commercial moments and serve messages that way, whether it's back to school, holiday, or other shopping commercial moments. We have excellent license collections that let us tell stories that are relevant to the US consumer, whether it's a collection that we're launching shortly with Stranger Things or just recently we launched our NFL license collection, which is very relevant to a US specific consumer. We're working really closely in market with creators who, you mentioned that Primark haul, that's a powerful tool. And those authentic voices on social media are very much part of our strategy because they're able to tell the stories in ways that connect with different audiences with a lot of credibility. So really, it's how are we able to put our brand messages out there and then a adapt those messages so that we're building cultural relevance across those consumer moments?

Suzy Davidkhanian (14:07):

In a credible, authentic way. I think that's amazing. And then Carina, can you tell us a little bit more about the Primark challenge, in addition to other sort of cultural moments that you're seeing Primark winning in terms of share of voice in the UK?

Carina Perkins (14:22):

Yeah, I think Primark has built a really good social media presence and hype in the UK, and we've especially seen the In Denim We Can campaign has really created a lot of hype. And because it's kind of items in stores and you don't have this endless inventory of an online store, you create that kind of FOMO moment. So there's been really good stuff with influencers and people think, "Okay, I really want that product." So they've creates that kind of emphasis on them to get down to the store and get it quick. So yeah, I think it's done a fantastic job on TikTok campaigns and influencer collaborations and things like that. And like you mentioned, the kind of hauls, it really resonates here.

(15:04):

And I think especially, we're also seeing that kind of similar that we've seen in beauty, kind of Primark dupes trend. We're seeing Primark come out with products which are just as nice as a pair of really expensive designer boots and that's then creating a load of hype. So I think it's done a fantastic job.

Suzy Davidkhanian (15:23):

Well, and that's the other big takeaway. If you're a global retailer, you need to be authentic and true to yourself, but there are some channels that are important no matter what market you're in, like social or creating challenges. Tell me more about the Primark challenge. Who can tell me more about that?

Rene Federico (15:39):

Yeah, I can go first on that one. I think again, for us in the US it really is about helping more and more people understand the magic of our stores and putting that opportunity at the center of our strategies.

[NEW_PARAGRAPH]And the challenge is that there's more and more pressure on budgets and your ability to kind of market and message and invest. And really, some worthwhile questions we need to answer against what is the return on this investment? How can we continue to invest in a way that is efficient while we're growing our store fleet, while we're growing our ability to serve the US consumer? And how are we able to unlock that investment and turn awareness into conversion, into new customers and new transactions in the store? And then how are we able to turn that awareness into cultural relevance?

(16:37):

And I think what Carina's done a great job describing is the cultural relevance of Primark in the UK and Ireland is a cornerstone of where they can build from at all times because it exists. We have globally an impressive following on social, a highly engaged audience on social, which is coveted by brands. A lot of followers, that's meaningless I think in today's social kind of metrics. When you have a lot of followers and you find that there is, you consistently above benchmark in engagement, then you know your brand is resonating and connecting.

(17:14):

And I think that is the biggest challenge we're faced as marketers today is you have to be known and loved, you have to be known and relevant, you have to be known and top of mind so that you go from the ability to make a customer or a potential customer, an audience aware of you to becoming their must shop destination. I would say that that is the biggest challenge that we're up against here in the US.

Suzy Davidkhanian (17:42):

And then with your background coming from American long-lived, loved brands like Nike and Converse, are there any lessons that you're bringing with you from that experience to try and help elevate Primark in the US awareness landscape?

Rene Federico (17:58):

Yeah, I think we talked a little bit about it. It is an authentic voice in the space. It is about not just selling products, but being part of the conversation within your industry. However, Primark as a fashion retailer, a style-led quality, confident, affordable retailer, how are we participating in the conversation around fashion and style, sustainability, self-expression? Not just selling products, right? Understanding how we drive that emotional connection while really being focused around excellence around the transactional. I would say those are the lessons learned where you're able to even sort of take Primark globally and what it stands for and be able to kind of adapt and translate that in a US relevant way, I think is where brands really thrive.

(18:53):

And I think that, I mentioned this before, is challenge is to make yourself less interchangeable. And I think some of the challenges facing other brands and retailers today is consumers are happy to interchange them with others if they can beat them on price or if they can beat them on convenience or some other factor. I think for us it's about making those emotional connections so that we're not interchangeable, where we're always the first choice because there's a genuine loving connection for our brand. I think that's part of what we're trying to replicate that they have in the UK and in Ireland.

Suzy Davidkhanian (19:28):

Well, and that's really interesting because as the marketplace gets more crowded, I know that brand love is second to none for Primark in the UK. Carina, what do you think that they're doing, in addition to maybe leaning into social, that's really helped them keep that space as competition continues to increase?

Carina Perkins (19:47):

I've already kind of touched on the value proposition, although that's not all that Primark are about. It's been a very important part of their success here, especially in recent years. But I think it's value. It's not cheap, that's the kind of thing, it's value. So it's affordable clothing, but it's in style and it's good quality and it's built to last. And I think that's a message that they've been trying to push here is that they're trying to distinguish themselves from your kind of super ultra-fast fashion like Shein and Temu, clothes that might not last as long. It's that real kind of quality clothing that lasts but is an affordable price point.

(20:27):

And I think because they're such a well-loved and well-known brand in the UK, consumers were already using them and then have kind of flocked them even moreso because money is tight and they maybe have to trade down from a more expensive brand. And then they've started using the clothes and they've said, "Okay, yeah, actually this is good quality," and they've continued doing so.

(20:47):

So I think really, it's been that, but also the kind of celebrity and influencer collabs. They're really working hard to make themselves relevant and to kind of push that on-trend buzz around them. And I think they've done that really, really well. But they've kind of shifted in the UK psyche from being a budget retailer to being an affordable but kind of quality on-trend retailer.

Suzy Davidkhanian (21:10):

And it's that emotional connection, Rene, that you've been talking about, which is critical because when you love something, you don't necessarily move on to the next thing.

(21:18):

I want to ask you one more question, both of you. In one sentence, in addition to all the things we've been talking about, as you think about the next few years, what is one unlock that could help Primark go from really growing fast in the US to being a must-shop destination?

Rene Federico (21:37):

The unlock for the US is brand awareness at scale. And if we can turn recognition of our brand into cultural relevance and not just be known but be loved, I think that that will cement us as a must-shop destination for the US customer.

Carina Perkins (21:53):

Yeah, and I think it will also be a little bit about that kind of store footprint and just getting more stores and more coverage across the US. But interestingly, the UK is a very highly penetrated market. So actually, e-commerce accounts for huge percentage of our total retail sales and moreso than in the US. But interestingly, for clothing and apparel in the UK, the penetration is lower than apparel in the US. So US fashion, people are buying more of their fashion online in the US. So I imagine that is going to be a bit of a challenge to overcome. But again, I think if you have that kind of love for the brand and the destination, then it's definitely something that can be overcome.

Suzy Davidkhanian (22:45):

I can't believe how quickly our time went. I have so many more questions to ask you. I think we'll have to do a part two. Unfortunately, it's all the time we have for today. Maybe we can do it after you open your Herald Square store.

Rene Federico (22:56):

We'd love to do that.

Suzy Davidkhanian (22:57):

Listeners, if you haven't been to a Primark yet, definitely consider this your excuse to go check one out. Thank you so much, Carina, for joining us.

Carina Perkins (23:06):

Thank you, Suzy.

Suzy Davidkhanian (23:07):

And Rene, thank you so much for joining us today.

Rene Federico (23:10):

Thanks for having me, Suzy. It was a pleasure.

Suzy Davidkhanian (23:12):

And thank you to our listeners and to our team that edits the podcast. Please leave a rating or review and remember to subscribe. And we'll see you next Wednesday for more Reimagining Retail. And on Friday, join Marcus for another episode of Behind the Numbers, an eMarketer podcast made possible by Fetch Rewards.