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Suzy Davidkhanian (00:00):

In a fast-moving market, you have to know what's working. With Nielsen Ad Intel, you'll know the wheres, whens, and hows of advertising across industries and channels. Maximize your ROI and achieve better results. Stop guessing, start winning, Nielsen Ad Intel. Hi everyone. Today is Wednesday, November 5th. Welcome to EMARKETER's weekly retail show, Reimagining Retail, an EMARKETER podcast made possible by Nielsen. This is the show where we talk about how retail collides with every part of our lives. I'm your host, Suzy Davidkhanian, and on today's episode we're exploring how beauty brands like Bluemercury are navigating the most competitive season in retail. And how to find ways to blend brand storytelling and performance marketing to stand out in a sea of holiday sparkles.

(00:50):

But before we do that, let's meet today's guest. I'm so excited for today's episode. Joining me in the studio is Minyi Su who leads marketing for Bluemercury. Hi, Minyi.

Minyi Su (01:00):

Hi, Suzy.

Suzy Davidkhanian (01:01):

Thanks so much for coming into the studio.

Minyi Su (01:03):

Of course, it was my pleasure.

Suzy Davidkhanian (01:05):

We also have regular, podcast regular, Sky Canaves, principal analyst that covers all things retail joining us from Texas. Hey, Texas. Hey, Sky.

Sky Canaves (01:15):

Hi, Suzy. Hi, Minyi.

Minyi Su (01:17):

Hi.

Suzy Davidkhanian (01:18):

So we all know the holidays are more than a sales event, they're a showcase for brands. It's the season when packaging glitters, loyalty programs get a workout and every brand from luxury to mass fights for attention. What this means for marketers, it's the ultimate test, blending brand storytelling that builds love with performance tactics that deliver results. Because in a crowded marketplace, showing up with a sale isn't quite enough anymore. You really need people to love you and to remember your story. So today we're lucky enough to talk with Bluemercury about how they're navigating that tension and what other brands can learn from them.

(01:55):

The holiday we all know is the biggest tent pole event in retail, but there are many lessons that go far beyond December. As the funnel is collapsing, marketers really need to connect brand and marketing performance. So with that, let's get started. So we all know, it's not a secret. Holidays are make or break for retail. It's both an emotional event, but it's also very important commercially. What makes this season unique for the beauty category? Sky, I think I'll start with you to give us an overview, and then, Minyi, you can tell us what that looks like for Bluemercury.

Sky Canaves (02:31):

Sure. So one part is just that there are festive occasions during the season, so consumers are looking to look great when they go out during the holidays, and then you have the gifting side of it where beauty is just such a natural fit. A lot of the products are small, so they make great stocking stuffers, but there's also the aspect of care and looking good and feeling good that beauty really taps into. So people like to give a bit of joy during the holidays through beauty products and a more recent trend that we see increasingly, especially among younger consumers is self-gifting trends, self-treating. And it also taps into the transitional period as we look ahead to the new year when people are thinking about new year, new you, and their resolutions and having that positive and uplifting outlook on the year ahead.

Suzy Davidkhanian (03:22):

Right. They're more open to discovery.

Sky Canaves (03:25):

Yeah. And so there's not just the opportunity to win sales from that demand for beauty products, but also to start forging longer-term relationships based on the storytelling and emotional connections that tie into these trends.

Minyi Su (03:39):

Absolutely, yeah. The innovations and beauty over the years has been fascinating and we see that it's not only about the function it delivers, it's started diversify. We have products that are based on these days, skin concern, different occasions, mood, and we started to see that really flourishing for the holiday where beauty started to behave more like a fashion category. So how consumers would shop would really look like, how do we think about their wardrobe? What do I want to look like today? How's my skin feeling today? What mood do I want to evoke today? So you start to see very exciting products in the more trial and special occasions and special packaging ways to present to a consumer.

(04:27):

You start to see very interesting products with high efficacy like exosome, lifting benefits because of the GLP1 popularity. Also, fragrances mixing different spices that you wouldn't expect for the holiday season. Again, just like how Sky put it, it's a great way for discovery and it's also a great way for innovations and getting those innovations to the consumer's hands. I expect to see even more diversified products this season than last year, and I already started seeing that from a gift guide's perspective and what brands are putting in our shelves.

Suzy Davidkhanian (05:06):

Right. And I think it's that limited edition and also gift-giving, but also like Sky said, giving to yourself and it's what the marketers magic trick and the magic box of creating that want and need that you might not even have, right? So what does that look like over the holidays when you're fighting for attention, Minyi?

Minyi Su (05:30):

What I see about the holiday season, it's almost like the big showtime and when the magic happens is the preparation for the showtime. As we all know, a great show comes with a lot of rehearsal, a lot of preparation, a lot of test and learn of different ways of expressing your brands, different ways to resonate with your audience. So the magic where I see it is all the tests and learns that you have done through the year actually get put into practice and see the result during the holiday season. So we're activating everything that we know since the start, such as full funnel strategy, messages that talk about bold and trust and using beauty as a tool for empowerment and amplifying those messages to win the consumer's attention.

Suzy Davidkhanian (06:24):

But you know winning the attention is hard, especially because everybody has a screen in their hand and is walking with a shopping mall in their hand. How are you guys helping? Or maybe you don't want to have the clear cut distinctions between the touch points because it feels like store displays have to fit with merchandising, have to fit with digital advertising. How does that all work to feel cohesive?

Minyi Su (06:47):

Yeah, absolutely. It's really important to think about all the funnels together and how they are interacting with each other. Like you said, extremely difficult to distinguish when someone seeing ads on the phone or maybe interact with your site or going to your stores, which touch points matters the most and how they influence their consumer's behavior. What we have learned is that when we have a full funnel tactics, meaning that diversify as much as you can to ensure that to match what the consumer's behaviors nowadays where their lives are really versatile, they're really everywhere. So make sure those tactics are fully covered in where they would show up is the key in capturing their attention.

(07:37):

Secondly, you touch upon a really good point about being small and a budget concern. If I use my show analogy, they're always going to be those blockbusters that have big budget, big productions and have a lot of shared voices. But there are also rooms for small films, independent fields. That is because the audience is so specific. So for Bluemercury, and I would assume for a lot of the brands our size, it is about cultivating that magic with our core consumer group and continue to differentiate from that perspective. We don't have to be the blockbuster, but we definitely want to win with those who support us and those who share our mindsets.

Sky Canaves (08:19):

And I think for retailers where they can really add value is in kind of curating and providing guidance around what's in stock or trending on the holiday season. I think of those guys that have become really popular, like the toy catalogs I get from Walmart and Amazon, that's where the products are, you can find the same products almost everywhere, but they also have the exclusives and the products that they highlight, their in-house brands as well as the brands that they carry. So bringing those together in a cohesive story in one place can be really compelling.

Minyi Su (08:56):

But you know what, Sky, it's funny you mentioned that, right? That's what I meant by the full funnel tactics. If you think about Amazon, traditionally everybody, we think really strong digital, amazing merchandising, amazing fulfillment, and the gift guy has become a hit. Everyone has the kids would look forward to that gives either you love it or hate it, our kids definitely want to play with it. But that is a very traditional tactic. It's something that is print, something that's tangible. Magazine catalogs exist for decades. Now we're seeing brands that are very good traditionally in one lane are diversifying in the lanes and fully capturing the white space that they didn't play before. So playing those full funnel tactics is important to stand out. That's our consumer behave is not just about one lane and really everywhere in their life.

Suzy Davidkhanian (09:52):

But to that though, there is starting to see more and more, we're starting to see more and more fatigue, right? There's channel fatigue, there are messaging fatigue.

Minyi Su (10:00):

Absolutely.

Suzy Davidkhanian (10:01):

How are brands, and I'm going to throw that to both of you maybe more broadly Sky, and then about what tactics you're using at Bluemercury, Minyi, but how are you able to cut through the clutter? What are some really neat things you guys are doing or seeing? Because there is a little bit of fatigue, there's a dime a dozen brands out there.

Sky Canaves (10:21):

I think what we don't see is content fatigue or entertainment fatigue. When there's good content and something that's entertaining or creative or new, whether it's the product or how it's marketed, that will appeal to consumers. There's also always a demand for freshness and innovation that really can speak to customers and does cut through the noise. So it has to be targeted in that way, speaking to the audience, understanding the audience, and then creating something that's really compelling and adds value to their lives.

Minyi Su (10:54):

Yeah. For sure. Adding value is absolutely important and how the brands should think about capturing the attention and avoiding fatigue. At Bluemercury we're very great at in-person experiences, so the very key differentiation of the brand is because of those more intimate high touch one-on-one connections you can have in store. And that's where, to your point, magic happened. A lot of our messaging it is to call out that differentiation to ensure our consumers can feel that human connections. When you feel the human connections then it's not just about the transaction of sale, you feel better about yourself, you feel less alone, and then you feel really warm towards the products that you use that transform you. So that's a way of thinking about value that we provide. It is providing that connectivity.

Suzy Davidkhanian (11:52):

Right. So not every message can be about sales and promotion is what we're saying. We need to build brand love whether it's through entertainment or through specific branding campaigns. But how do you find that balance? How do you know what message to hit where, on which touch point when?

Minyi Su (12:09):

That's a great question. So every CMO I encourage, I think everyone know this already. Every CMO should advocate and educate the importance of building brands despite the pressure of delivering on a weekly basis to the sales, to the commercial goals. That is because, I was an accountant by training, when you sell a company, there's a line called Goodwill. It's something you cannot measure. It's intangible, but that goodwill doesn't come up on the financial statements until you have a event happening. So on a day-to-day basis, when we are interacting with our investors, whether it's CFOs, whether it's a board members, how do you articulate the importance of that? So Suzy, you ask a really good point. What is the blend and balance between brand and performance? The way I see it is it our duty to continue to build a brand and deposit into this long-term investment?

(13:10):

What I find opportunity is when we are starting doing more performance marketing, the funnel is started to blend as well. There are a lot of mid-funnel, even sometimes upper funnel, the way that you see how social media transform is no longer just about influencer that create a desirability and elevated world. It's actually content creators that are owning the space right now. And a lot of the content creators are affiliate-based content creators. So they're very driven by commission and you cannot really tell whether that's a true organic UGC or it is a paid affiliated program. That is because these funnels of touch points on how you influence consumer is start a blend.

(13:53):

So I start to see and use performance marketing as a way, how do I push the boundary in putting some of the dollars to more the upper and mid-funnel without impacting the performance side of the sales that it should be driving? So how do I think about a full funnel strategy in measuring marketing efficiency and educate those around me that may be looking at different metric to watch out for the brand equity? Because at the end of the day, the both brand size and performance size really need to deliver for the company.

Suzy Davidkhanian (14:33):

And so as you think about KPIs, I mean the sales ones are obvious, right? Conversion is the biggest one. How do you measure brand love?

Minyi Su (14:39):

Yes, that's a great question. For a bigger company that's much easier because there are a lot of tools, surveys you could do, right? Can tar yoga if they all can start to try brand love for you and brand awareness for you. But what if you're a small brand? What if you're just a starting brand? What are the crappier way and more agile way that you can measure that? And if you don't even have an MPS system already in place, how we are looking at it is looking at proxy metrics. So do we see Google search volume? Do we see engagement changes? Do we see people consuming our content? To Sky's point, finding them more interesting and valuable. Because those are the proxy indicator. And then overall, how do we think about the total marketing spend as a portfolio of activities, evaluate the total efficiency regardless of the inter-single channel efficiency. So that's how we should get to a better metric, not only looking at one particular channel, but overall marketing performance across all channels.

Suzy Davidkhanian (15:49):

So it sounds like on the retailer side there's so much clarity around and it sounds like you're not even calling it the collapse funnel, but it's the blended funnel, but clarity around each of the different touch points. But Sky, do you really think that consumers understand this idea of a blended funnel and that they're really thinking about each of the different touch points in terms of consistency or are they looking for something different? Are we overthinking it?

Sky Canaves (16:15):

I think they're looking for a good brand experience and customer experience overall, but in terms of specific touch points, there's not really a difference because the customer journey nowadays meanders across channels. So they see inspiration, they see content and the opportunity to purchase, and they might all be in one place or they might be dispersed. So there is that importance of really looking at holistically channel performance. Earlier I just heard from Estee Lauder in their earnings call, so they've launched on some of their brands on TikTok shop after a long time and that's a really important channel for beauty.

(16:53):

But they said they're not looking at it just as a sales channel for the direct sales it drives, but as a customer acquisition tool and for the halo effect in driving sales through other channels. And brands also look at other channels, the store as a marketing channel, Amazon as a customer acquisition and marketing channel as well. And so all of these work together because consumers, when they don't think of buying beauty products as something they have to do necessarily in one place or in one channel in store and online.

Minyi Su (17:25):

Yes, absolutely. Probably every beauty consumer would have consumed contents on TikTok and also have purchased something else on Amazon. So we are playing in those channels as well to exactly your point, Sky. Sometimes it's not just about that month how those two channels perform, but it is about the ecosystem that we have to be in.

Suzy Davidkhanian (17:48):

Right. So it sounds like consumers understand and they do want a cohesive experience regardless of channel. It's what we always say, right? "Meet me where I am and deliver what I'm looking for, where I am." And so I think for someone like Bluemercury where you have to do marketing around your nameplate, you have private label, you have vendor brands, national brands, how does that all come together? And you just said you're in lots of different channels.

Minyi Su (18:12):

Yes, the rising tide raises all boats. That's how we think about all the elements that we should and have to tell the stories within Bluemercury. I see Bluemercury as the orchestra where the piano could be some national brands, the cello is our own brands, and then some of the violins is like the limited editions or SPA services. All those need to be cut together if the overall message of the symphony is attractive to the consumer. So I try to do a few bigger better in lifting the Bluemercury position, Bluemercury message and try to make sure that our differentiations, which is about that curated luxury neighborhood boutique for you is very clear to the consumer. So they're aware why should they come shop at Bluemercury? Why should they be engaged with us?

(19:14):

And once they're interested and they are with us, then we can tell the deeper stories on why our proprietary brands like M61 and Luna+Aster would deliver certain benefits for you. Why certain new innovations from national brands like 111SKIN, La Mer, Augustinus Bader for example, are coming out with their own products. But if they're not even interested in Bluemercury to begin with, it's really difficult to then tell the different stories.

Suzy Davidkhanian (19:46):

And I think you tee us up really well for, we keep talking about an emotional connection and we spend a lot of time at EMARKETER thinking about loyalty and it feels like, I mean it was one of our trends for 2025. So loyalty is moving beyond transaction to create that emotional component. Sky, are you seeing any companies that are really master class and how do you move loyalty just beyond it being sales driving to that emotional connection?

Sky Canaves (20:16):

Yeah, I think increasingly tying loyalty to experiences that add value to the consumer's life, whether that's through exclusive products or early access or even in-person experiences like in stores. And then targeting that, like understanding the consumer through using the loyalty program to understand the consumer and then be able to personalize to the desired effect that meets their needs as well as the brand's. So loyalty programs really have to become a branded experience and not just earn and burn gain points and get the same thing as everyone else is getting.

Minyi Su (20:55):

Yes, for sure. That personalized messages and personalized offer, whether that offer is a incentive, a special reward or special experience, it needs to cater to that particular person. Another way I also have been thinking about it is, what are the unique connections that we can create with our loyal customers? I'm very excited to share that our fall campaign, which features women over 40 who push the boundaries and continue to pursue the next chapter of their growth, whether that's professional, personal, even emotional, mental, and we feature different women in the campaign using beauty as a way of empowerment and a confident tool. So one of the talent, one the cast members is actually a loyal customer of ours. So we give our customer an opportunity to be even feature in our major national campaign. What I really loved about that is it's so natural for Bluemercury because we are that neighborhood trusted store that bring luxury beauty to you.

(22:12):

And following up with a campaign that customer had a viewing party in her home store, inviting her friends and family, watching the clips of video of her talking about how she doesn't stop because of age and she would still continue to pursue her dreams and where maybe bold colors and use beauty as a way for expressing herself. That was such a warming moment for me and that's how I think about loyalty. We would have more of the CRM's and personalized messages and offer, but how do we create these unique special connections to as many people as we can?

Suzy Davidkhanian (22:58):

And I think it's you who said it to us before, "Deals bring people in, but loyalty keeps them coming," which I love. And we'll keep saying it to everybody who listens. It's really critical. So with that, I have one more very quick or rapid fire answer please. What's one quick win or best practice that marketers can do right now to set themselves up for success in the holiday period? Sky, I'm going to start with you.

Sky Canaves (23:21):

I really like Minyi's focus on this campaign working with the over-40 beauty consumer, because I think that can be a demographic that's underserved. We saw in our recent survey of beauty consumers, when you look at the influence of creators and their impact on social commerce and beauty shopping, that even though Gen Z is in the lead, the creator influence on beauty and their impact on influence on purchases has really gone mainstream. Around 60% of the respondents we surveyed are following creators and a significant share of those made purchases based on creator influence or recommendations in the beauty space.

Minyi Su (24:05):

Wow, I love that.

Suzy Davidkhanian (24:06):

So your win is use the creators?

Sky Canaves (24:08):

Yes, and expand the demographic. Understand that creators don't just appeal to Gen Z and millennials, but they can be relevant to everyone.

Minyi Su (24:16):

Absolutely. My lesson will be more properly operator focused. Being agile and willing to adjust and be flexible in changing channel mix and constantly optimize during the holiday, probably get you the most return during the season. Again, we don't know what we don't know, so we plan with the most preparation, but we should also be game and ready to make adjustment as we are seeing shifting consumer sentiments or engagement in different channels.

Suzy Davidkhanian (24:50):

Learn and pivot. Critical.

Minyi Su (24:52):

Yes.

Suzy Davidkhanian (24:52):

Yes. That's all we have time for today. Thank you Minyi for joining me in the studio.

Minyi Su (24:57):

You're welcome. Thank you.

Suzy Davidkhanian (24:58):

And thank you, Sky, for joining us.

Sky Canaves (25:00):

Thanks. It was a pleasure.

Suzy Davidkhanian (25:01):

And thank you to listeners and to our team that edits the podcast. Please leave a rating or review and remember to subscribe. I'll see you for more Reimagining Retail next Wednesday. And on Friday, join Marcus for another episode of Behind the Numbers, an EMARKETER podcast made possible by Nielsen.