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Marcus Johnson: Welcome everyone to In the Game, a new market sports marketing podcast made possible by ROKT. This is a conversation about the World Cup, capturing fans' attention at the world's biggest event. Hello, folks, I'm Marcus, and today I'm alongside two people on the forecasting team that I used to be on that I miss very dearly, um, living in New York- We miss you, Marcus

Marcus Johnson: senior director [00:01:00] of- Thank you. Finally. Took you long enough. Gonna have to cut that in. Uh, living in New York, senior director of forecasts, Oscar Orozco.

Oscar Orozco: Hello, listeners. So happy to be on my first In the Game episode, Marcus. Thank you for having me. Thank you for

Marcus Johnson: that. Thank you for being here. Uh, I'm also joined by senior forecasting analyst, living down in Nashville, Drew Spink.

Drew Spink: Hey, thank you to be here, Marcus. Um- Yes ... also haven't been on this type of podcast before, so looking forward to it.

Marcus Johnson: Welcome both. All right, folks, today's topic, winning the World Cup, capturing fans at the world's biggest event. All right, so, uh, the 2026 FIFA World Cup co-hosted by the US, Canada, and Mexico, is the largest in history, expanding from 32 to 48 teams, and running from the 11th of June to the 19th of July this year.

Marcus Johnson: Oh, sorry, one second.

Marcus Johnson: This... Okay. Sorry about that Sorry about this, just wardrobe change. I

Oscar Orozco: [00:02:00] absolutely love it. It's pretty. It's hard to- It's

Marcus Johnson: pretty.

Oscar Orozco: Okay.

Marcus Johnson: For our listeners, just putting on my England jersey. Sorry about that, should have had that on at the beginning. I didn't tell you guys I was gonna put this on because I didn't want you to represent any other country on the show-

Oscar Orozco: You are distracting me-

Oscar Orozco: whilst I'm hosting it ... but no, no, it's a pretty jersey, Marcus, but can't say I share the same fandom as you. I have to say that.

Marcus Johnson: I wish I could say the same. It's a painful team to root for. Um, my mum just got this to me, so thank you to Mum- Yeah ... for the England jersey for this year. But we're talking all about the World Cup, gang.

Marcus Johnson: Um, what stat, I'll start with you, Oscar, what stat best represents the scale of this World Cup? Um, lots to choose from.

Oscar Orozco: Listen, I, there are a lot to choose from, like you said. I mean, I really do wanna point out this is the biggest World Cup of all time. 48 teams, as you said.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah, normally 32 for folks who haven't- Normally 32

Marcus Johnson: um, yeah, who, for folks who don't normally watch, it's gone from 32 to

Oscar Orozco: 48. Exactly, and I, I think we're very [00:03:00] close to seeing 64, and I was against it- Oh, interesting ... of, oh, I really do believe it. I was against it for a long time. There were rumors. Now I am pushing for it, so it's only gonna get bigger. But I think, you know, you have to highlight that.

Oscar Orozco: It just means so many more matches. Yeah. But I'll give you one other one. Okay. The other stat is that Austria versus Jordan filled up the stadium, uh, was filled up by more than 98% capacity. Austria versus Jordan. Wow. Uh, and we have not seen any other matches drop below 98%, so-

Marcus Johnson: Wow ...

Oscar Orozco: it just speaks to just how excited fans are, how many people are going to games- Mm-hmm

Oscar Orozco: uh, and just, you know, generally how s- uh, successful the tournament has been thus far, and we're not done yet.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. Um, stadiums being filled all over the shop. One of the numbers I had was, um, over five million fans expected to attend the World Cup's 104 matches, so more teams, more matches, as Oscar mentioned, um, across Canada, Mexico, and the US.

Marcus Johnson: Uh, this [00:04:00] number, six billion more engaging with the newly expanded competition, um, this year. Six billion people. There's about eight billion in the world, so, uh, just for reference. So, um, two thir- uh, sorry, three-quarters, uh, of people in the world paying attention to this competition according to FIFA. Um, Drew, what was your figure or figures?

Drew Spink: Uh, mine's just an extension of what you were just talking about. Um- Mm ... that six billion, more just putting into reference of the other sporting events in the world. Okay. So the last World Cup, um, the, the single match, the final, had 1.5 billion viewers. Um, the entire last Summer Olympics had three billion, and the Cricket World Cup had 2.6 billion over the course of the week.

Drew Spink: And just for reference, for like American listeners, our biggest event is usually the Super Bowl. The last one had 120 million viewers.

Oscar Orozco: Mm.

Drew Spink: So that would be the equivalent of 50 Super Bowls that will be happening over the course of this entire tournament.

Oscar Orozco: Insane. And you're saying that's cumulative, some of those, right?

Oscar Orozco: So this is, you're talking about one match-

Drew Spink: Yeah, cumulative ... you mean one match. [00:05:00] Yeah ... could get up to, to six billion. But even just a single total for the final is 10 times bigger than the Super Bowl on the world stage.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Wow. That is an excellent one. Um, it was... I mean, the World Cup every year, it, it really is just, um, uh, the centerpiece of the year.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. It's the thing everyone only looks forward to. And there was high expectations in terms of, uh, what it would do, um, for, uh, for the US, for the, the other countries hosting. Um, and America needed it. Uh, last year tourism to the US was down, actually, about 5%, and there was hopes that it would be up about 5% this year.

Marcus Johnson: However, Reuters' analyst Zach Stambor, noting early forecasts for the World Cup, uh, said, "Painted a rosy picture," um, early forecast, that is. FIFA projected over $30 billion, uh, i- in economic, uh, in an economic boost. Um, whilst the US Travel Association expected a surge in tourism with visitors spending about five grand, 5,000 US dollars per trip.

Marcus Johnson: That's about one in a, uh, 1.7 times, nearly twice, [00:06:00] uh, as much as the typical international visitor. Uh, one in three planning to stay longer than two weeks. Um, so it's supposed to be this huge kind of injection, infusion into, into the economy. Um, things have changed, uh, since then. Drew, uh, how to you has the current economic climate affected the World Cup?

Drew Spink: Um, I think that there, there's been a lot of, like, differing narratives that I've heard. Like what Oscar mentioned earlier is that none of the stadium populations have been below 98%, and a ton of people have been tuning in. But at the same time, when the tickets were earlier sold, FIFA used dynamic pricing for the first time.

Drew Spink: So some of the tickets skyrocketed up towards $10,000. Yeah. And even the cheapest ones on some of the matches, like in New York, were more expensive than even tickets at the last final in the World Cup. So I think that there's been kind of a barrier of people that even for just, like, American fans at home- Mm-hmm

Drew Spink: who might be able to more [00:07:00] easily go to these games and engage, it's just really expensive.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah.

Drew Spink: So I think that if y- they're not really tuned in or planning on going in the first place, I think that high price tag might be enough to deter them from going to the games-

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Yeah ...

Drew Spink: in the

Marcus Johnson: third point. Pe- people are just so much more price sensitive.

Marcus Johnson: I mean, the, the, there's a, you know, the war in Iran going on. Um, oil prices have been higher. Energy prices have been higher. Uh, things are generally more expensive, and so, um, we have seen, we have noticed people pulling back in, in certain areas. And travel, um, attendance to s- to sporting events, uh, entertainment is gonna be one of the, the areas they- they're more sensitive to.

Oscar Orozco: Yeah. I, I point out fair, I, I totally agree with you guys. It's, it's complicated, but I think one of the key numbers for me that's really telling the story is international travel numbers are... They're down. Uh, I think FIFA had estimated, uh, that 40% of World Cup visitors would be international travelers, and that won't be the case.

Oscar Orozco: Hmm. So what that means is that it's, it, it's appears to be [00:08:00] local f- fans, right? Or may- maybe some of them are m- are casual compared to your average World Cup, you know- Yeah ... um, fan that normally attends. So it's being driven by domestic, you know, pe- people who are living here, staying here long term. Uh, and, and by here, I mean obviously the US and Mexico as well, Canada.

Oscar Orozco: So it's kind of interesting. Uh, but what that means is, of course, we're not seeing that big bump up in international visitors and, you know, it remains to be seen-

Marcus Johnson: Yeah ...

Oscar Orozco: what that will mean. But that's- Yeah ... the reality. That's the reality.

Marcus Johnson: For advertisers, it means it's a different demographic. If you're expecting one type of audience to show up, and it's a different type, um-

Oscar Orozco: Exactly.

Oscar Orozco: Mm-hmm. Exactly. And it's impacting, you know, hotel bookings. I mean, flight prices are up. I mean, there are obviously still people traveling, but I think dom- domestic flights as well, so you might be seeing, right, the New York fan traveling to Kansas City or-

Marcus Johnson: Yeah ...

Oscar Orozco: you know, over to Los Angeles to see a game.

Oscar Orozco: So, um, it puts, uh, definitely more, uh, pressure, uh, on the, on the success of the tournament being driven by, by US and, and, uh, you know, [00:09:00] Mexican, Canadian fans. Yeah. We'll see if they can deliver out to the, to the, uh, final stages perhaps if their teams are not still in the tournament.

Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh, a month or two ago I was reading that the average worldwide, uh, airplane ticket was up about 25% from the year before.

Marcus Johnson: So, um, prices... Uh, it's already- Yeah ... expensive to travel and when something as, as- ... expensive as a big ticket item, you know, is 100, a couple of hundred, uh, two, three, 400 at least dollars plus, uh, thousands, whatever, um, starts going up by 25% in, in 12 months, it does, it definitely affects people's plans. Um, Oscar, you mentioned that it might be a different type of fan.

Marcus Johnson: Um- Mm ... Americans not known for putting soccer at the top of their list when it comes to sports. Um, Drew, h- how many Americans are you expecting to, to care about the event? What's your take on American sentiment towards the World Cup?

Drew Spink: Yeah. So again, with the kind of mixed messaging thing that we've already been talking about on the last couple questions.

Drew Spink: So all the polling that was basically done [00:10:00] on the event before it started. So one from Emerson College found that about 45% of Americans had no interest and 33% had small interest. So that's- Wow ... 75% of- Wow ... all Americans. And then a YouGov survey said it was even bleaker, that 55% just didn't care at all and showed no interest.

Drew Spink: Mm-hmm. Now, if we look at the results of the games that have happened so far- Mm ... um, at this point, Fox's viewership is up over 130%, and Telemundo's is up over 250% from where- Wow ... it was in Qatar. Wow. Yeah And Fox now projects 150 million people will watch some portion of the coverage, um, approaching the 170 million that they usually see across the NFL season.

Marcus Johnson: Okay.

Drew Spink: So we're, we're seeing different things. Yeah. And I think that the success of the US team so far has helped a lot in pushing- Yes ... for people- Mm ... that are now actually willing to engage. Because for a long time, Americans haven't really cared about soccer because- Mm ... we haven't been very good. And- Yeah

Drew Spink: we're expecting to lose, [00:11:00] or they try and drum up some type of narrative for us to root for, but people don't, like, really like it. Yeah. So but now that we're 2 and 0 and the team looks better than any American team I've seen in my lifetime- Yeah ... everybody's like, "We can actually do this?" They're all behind that, 'cause Americans do love sports, and they do love-

Marcus Johnson: Yes.

Drew Spink: Yes So I think, like, once there's, like, a, a, a horse for them to, to ride behind, then they will- Yeah ... actually engage, and the numbers will go up.

Marcus Johnson: The want to is definitely there. And I had some similarly- Mm ... uh, bleak, I think, to use your word, true numbers. Uh, one was from newsletter analyst, uh, our newsletter analyst, Marissa Jones.

Marcus Johnson: Just 10% of Americans expressed interest in the tournament, placing the US among the countries with the lowest percentage of World Cup followers, according to 55Blue. That's formerly Kantar. Second one was from Chris Wood, one of our analysts. Roughly 35% of US adults plan to watch this year's World Cup. Uh, that was a November Ipsos survey.

Marcus Johnson: Um, that's a low compared to other nations like Argentina's 79%. Um, but Oscar, t- it's kind of interesting 'cause on the one [00:12:00] hand, not a ton of interest in watching potentially- Mm ... but growing, um, interest in football in general. Maybe not the US men's team. Definitely more the US women's team 'cause they've won, I think it's- Yeah.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah ... four titles. Feel good. The most titles in, in the history for women's, uh, f- soccer, football. Um, but at grassroots level, there is a lot more interest in, in, in soccer. This number blew me away According to Ampere Analysis, soccer is US fans' self-declared third favorite sport. So if you ask Americans what are your favorite sports, they say football, American football, unsurprisingly.

Marcus Johnson: They say it was about 36%, 5%. Um, basketball is about 18, 17, 18%. Uh, soccer, 10% according, uh, uh, as of the end of 2024. Mm-hmm. That's one percentage point more, 9%, than people who chose bas- uh, baseball, America's supposedly favorite pastime.

Oscar Orozco: That's right. No, absolutely. I mean, it, it, it's complex, like everything we're talking about today, but that's, uh, undoubtedly the truth.

Oscar Orozco: There's been [00:13:00] so much growth behind the game. Now, it's not universal, right? When we think of b- uh, coast to coast in the country, right? It is- Mm-hmm ... um, focused in, in perhaps major urban enclaves- Good point ... specific cities. We know, you know, shouting out any listeners on the Pacific Northwes- in the Pacific Northwest.

Oscar Orozco: That's a huge area where, where soccer's really popular. Uh, so you know, it's, it's, it's just not universal. I think it, it will get there, but that survey rings true to me. I mean, I think, uh, soccer's become so much popular. The audience is... What I'm, what I've... I was gonna point out as well, what I've been reading and seeing is that it does skew younger, so which means, right- Yes

Oscar Orozco: that over time we, we should expect this to continue growing. Yes. Perhaps that's not the case with baseball, right? Where the demographic might be a bit older. Uh, and it's- Good point ... more multicultural, so it's reflecting the- Yes ... reality of, of the US, you know, and, and, and, and the population itself, so. Yeah.

Oscar Orozco: Um, and so that's definitely also a, a, you know, a buoy for, for, for the sport itself here [00:14:00] in, uh- Mm-hmm ... in the country. To pivot a little bit, to scold our, our Canadian counterparts, our Canadian neighbors, um, I was really disappointed during the opening match for Canada. Their, their first game of the tournament- Uh-huh

Oscar Orozco: in the same city. It was held in Toronto. There was a Toronto, uh, Blue Jays game, which I didn't- It was literally... They held it the same day. I couldn't believe that, you know? So- ... Canada has some more work to do than we do here in, uh-

Marcus Johnson: But to that point, um- That there are other sports going on, you know? And that's the thing that was working against this tournament.

Marcus Johnson: Um, uh, according to, uh, Harris Poll, the US's, America's hosting duties aren't driving a tremendous amount of interest in this year's World Cup as much as you might expect. War in Iran, obviously on people's minds, Knicks winning the NBA championship, the WNBA is more popular than ever, and baseball's still on.

Marcus Johnson: And so it is always gonna be in competition, um, with some sport that's going on in the calendar year in America. That's true. I want to quickly jump on those two points you mentioned, [00:15:00] um, and Drew, get your take on them as well if you have some, some thoughts here, uh, Oscar or any others. Who's planning to watch?

Marcus Johnson: Pretty evenly s- I... Well, it does skew younger, but it doesn't, um, skew as young as I thought it might. 40% of Gen Z and millennials, um, according to Numerator, 32% of Gen X, and 24% of boomers plan to watch. This is as of May. So it definitely skews younger, but not as much as I, as I thought. And the second point, this is fascinating.

Marcus Johnson: So very notable differences by demographic. Um, this is from Pew Research Center. Immigrants, they say, more than twice as likely as US-born citizens to follow the World Cup. Um, men 33%, women 24, so some differences there. Hispanic 42% compared to 29 for Black and 23 for white. And, um, Oscar, I thought this was an interesting, uh, point from, uh, an Adweek piece, uh, from CMO of Zappi, Nata- uh, Natalie Kelly.

Marcus Johnson: She writes, "It's been 30 years since the US last hosted the World Cup. In that time, the Hispanic population has nearly tripled- Mm ... [00:16:00] and nearly 45 million people in America speak the Spanish language at home, making it, making the US the second-largest Spanish-speaking population in the world after Mexico."

Marcus Johnson: This, she says, "The face of the country has changed, but advertisers haven't clocked it. In the same time period, Spanish language programming spend has gone from 3% of total ad budgets to 4%." From 3% to 4%. A quarter of a century of demographic transformation answered with one percentage point. Any takes on that?

Oscar Orozco: Yeah, I mean, I think... You know why? Because I think it does oversimplify the, you know, the group, right? It- the group encompasses- Mm ... potentially people from 20 different countries. Great point. It, it can be hard to target, uh, individuals. Uh, and it's not as simple as just having Spanish language content. I mean, I think, um, y- you know, it's increasingly a bilingual community as well.

Oscar Orozco: Mm. Uh, so it's complex. Uh, but it does surprise me. I hadn't seen that data point, that it's only up one percentage point over that time. Yeah. [00:17:00] Um- Shocking ... but I would also point out, i- i- uh, you know, there was incredible viewership number, we could've mentioned this earlier, but for the opening round, uh, the first round, uh, ga- uh, match for the US against Paraguay.

Oscar Orozco: But 10 million, I believe, close to 10 million of those viewers were on Telemundo. So it speaks to that- Oh, wow ... you know, there, that there's, you know, you would assume that they might, uh, the community might be sup- supporting other countries. Mm-hmm. But a lot of people are supporting the US, uh, alone, you know?

Marcus Johnson: Yeah.

Oscar Orozco: Uh, so it, it, it's really a fascinating point, and I, I do believe marketers have still not been able to kinda hit on, on the right way to communicate to the Hispanic community.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. Drew, any thoughts on these or any other viewership changes that you're interested in?

Drew Spink: No, I think they're both very interesting points, and I'm also surprised that it's only increased one percentage point in the last 25 years.

Drew Spink: But to Oscar's- Yeah ... point about Telemundo, their viewership has been up over 250% compared to the Qatar World Cup. Yeah. So clearly the- Wow ... um, Hispanic [00:18:00] American people that live here are engaging with it more in their host country. So I, I do- Okay ... think that is definitely a bigger opportunity for a population to engage with.

Drew Spink: And I think that, I mean, for the most part American football is the most popular, but it's predominantly just played by White and African American players, whereas- Mm ... immigrant communities, that's what they grew up playing, it's what they- Right ... grew up watching, and it's what they see of themselves on TV.

Drew Spink: So I think- Yeah ... that that is just... I don't think it's a lack of them being interested in sport, it's just the right sport. So I think- Mm-hmm ... this is a great opportunity to take advantage of that.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah.

Oscar Orozco: Absolutely. I'd point out one quick other thing- Yes ... on Telemundo. I've... What I have seen, this is anecdotal, but there are some games not shown on Fox.

Oscar Orozco: They're, uh, perhaps on, uh, like, on FS1, which is more of, like, a cable channels. I do think maybe some people are comfortable watching where, you know, you, you can get Telemundo over the air and, uh, you know, through, through, um, you know, just, like, bro- it's, it seems like a [00:19:00] broadcast channel. So, uh, it speaks to people that they just wanna see a specific game, and it might be the only way to see it as well.

Oscar Orozco: Yeah. So it might be in- over-inflating those numbers a bit. Uh, but, uh, but nonetheless, yeah, a lot of growth on Telemundo and, and you would expect more and more, more there. As well as Vix. I'll, I'll shout out Vix. Vix, uh, it's a streaming platform, very niche, but it's, uh, you can see games through there, and I believe that they're, they're seeing a lot of success as well throughout the tournament so far.

Drew Spink: And same with Tubi. Tubi's showing all the US games for free.

Oscar Orozco: Tubi as well.

Drew Spink: Yeah.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. O- o- one other stat that really, uh, tells a very interesting story about where football is, soccer is at the moment, uh, The Economist noting spending on, uh, soccer media rights in America, soccer media rights in America has risen fourfold in the past decade, and is now greater than the amount spent on baseball rights According to Daniel, uh, Monaghan, um, of, uh, Ampere, he notes that whereas [00:20:00] America's baseball fans focus on the single league, the MLB, uh, as, uh, Oscar will know, America's soccer fans pay, um, attention to everything from the English Premier League to Spain's La Liga, uh, driving up the sport's total value.

Marcus Johnson: Uh, America has become the biggest foreign market for the four largest European leagues, um, which is incredible. Incredible. A great line from The Economist here says, "America may still have some catching up to do when playing men's football, but in watching it is already world-class." Um, they are watching, uh, mainly on TV.

Marcus Johnson: Mm. Um, where Americans watch, uh, and, and listen to the- where they're planning to watch and listen to the, uh, World Cup. It's pretty fragmented, but TV still ru- rules the roost. Mm. You can see it from this data on the screen from ThinkNow Research. Um, 73% of, uh, soccer fans, US soccer fans saying they're planning to watch or listen, uh, to regular TV to watch the, the tournament, 73%.

Marcus Johnson: Uh, social media, live streams, 35%. Uh, mobile apps and [00:21:00] public viewing events, both with 31%. And then in-person at stadium, 21%. Radio, et cetera, further down the list. Gents, let's talk about, um... We talked a little bit about it before, I believe- Mm ... uh, when we were talking about the tra- how the current economic climate is gonna affect people traveling to different games.

Marcus Johnson: And our analyst, uh, Ariel Fager, questioning whether the World Cup will kick off a surge of sports tourism. Nearly half, she says, of Mexican adults, 49%, and 44% of Canadian adults report having traveled specifically to attend a sporting event, compared to, uh, less than 1/3, 32%, of US consumers. Um, just 2% of... Oh, and I f- I don't remember who pla- made this point.

Marcus Johnson: I think it might have been Stewart, who runs the team. But someone, when I said that point, was like, "Well, if you're in Canada, you're more likely to maybe come cross the border into the US- Mm ... to see basketball games or whatever." So maybe that's, that's part of it, which I thought was interesting. Uh, but just 2% of US consumers have ever traveled abroad to a sporting event.

Marcus Johnson: That first stat was domestically. But s- traveling abroad, just [00:22:00] 2%. Canadians, 19, Mexicans, 14, per, per YouGov. Um, Drew, will, in your opinion, will the World Cup kick off a surge of sports tourism for Americans?

Drew Spink: Uh, I think it's possible, definitely. Um, I just pulled this from, uh, Airbnb, but they were saying that-

Marcus Johnson: Hmm

Drew Spink: um, they are expecting this to be their biggest event ever, which would surpass the 2024 Olympics. So that's, like, counting worldwide, but- Wow ... they seem to think so, and I think the idea behind it is that the, for the people that are traveling, so more than three-quarters of the World Cup travelers plan to stay between 6 to 12 nights, often staying in multiple cities together.

Drew Spink: So I think Oscar was one of the people who bought tickets in multiple cities- Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm ... planning to go to multiple cities. Mm-hmm. So I, I, I think that he's representative of what kind of I'm talking about, and I think Airbnb sees that in their booking as well.

Oscar Orozco: Mm-hmm. Y- yeah, and, and absolutely. And I, and I realize, you know, I've, uh, that it's, it's not for everybody.

Oscar Orozco: It depends. Yeah, I'm, I [00:23:00] am a big football fan. Maybe I should've said that at the beginning, huh? Some of my takes are a bit biased here. Uh, but no, no, but, uh, jokes aside, I mean, you know, I, I do... Like, I agree with you, Drew. I think in short, yes, it's, it's gonna kick off some sort of, you know, domestic sports-led tourism, but I wouldn't call it a blanket surge, right?

Oscar Orozco: Like, I think, uh, I mentioned this earlier, right? We were talking about specific markets. I mean, this is, the tournament's being held across, I believe, a dozen US cities- Mm-hmm ... um, and it probably will spill over into neighboring, uh, you know, uh, cities or towns around those cities. Um, I've found it very interesting that the, the clubs are all based across the whole country and in Canada, like where their training grounds are.

Oscar Orozco: So, you know, I can, uh, speak to Spain, for example, they're, they're, they're in Chattanooga, and I think that's probably led to, like, a nice uplift in, in local businesses there. Uh, but you know, it's, again, it's not a, [00:24:00] this blanket surge, this massive movement of Americans all over. It, it does... You know, uh, I, I saw a stat from Numerator finding that only about 1.6% of US consumers plan to attend, right?

Oscar Orozco: So it's pro- It's, it's gonna be higher than that, but ultimately it is a specific type of, uh, consumer and fan, and, uh, that- Mm-hmm ... that can, that can go and can pay for it, and it, because it is expensive.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. Um, why people do it, supporting a specific team Was the number one reason US consumers travel for sports, said Nicole Pike, Global Head of YouGov Sport.

Marcus Johnson: Um, we had an email article. It was interesting 'cause the Americans will travel- Mm-hmm ... um, they just will travel for certain types of events. So US sports travelers are equally willing to travel for regular season and playoff matches, uh, so 41%. That outpaces worldwide fans by double digits on both. Mm-hmm.

Marcus Johnson: However, they trail global travelers by [00:25:00] 18 points on major single sport international events. This is from a 2025 December, um, 2025 YouGov survey. So when it comes to multi, uh, major multi-sport international events, domestic championship matches, major single sporting international events. So it depends on the type of event.

Marcus Johnson: Um, but they trail most, uh, folks worldwide when it comes to these, apart from regular season and playoff matches. They are willing to travel for those, um- Yeah ... which makes sense 'cause they can- That, that

Oscar Orozco: makes- Yeah ... makes a lot of sense. I mean- Yeah ... and I think if anyone's to, to break that trend, it will be like what Drew said, if the soccer, the US soccer team continues to improve-

Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm

Oscar Orozco: uh, because those are the international, uh, tournaments where, where you would expect that, uh, big surge in travel abroad. Yeah. But, you know, the, the popular sports, they're, they're usually pr- you know, pretty, uh, uh, they're held domestically, and, uh, the top teams are only here- Yeah ... in the US. So that's just the reality.

Oscar Orozco: I

Marcus Johnson: wonder what share of, I don't know if you guys see any stat, what share of the fans [00:26:00] at the international NFL games are American? You know, 'cause, um, they had, now they have, I think, nine games this coming season where they'll have, um, uh, you know, one in Germany, one in Fra- France, one in England, et cetera, et cetera- Mm-hmm

Marcus Johnson: um, one of the NFL games, regular season games. And so I do wonder what share of that audience is Americans traveling versus, um, fans in those countries, um, or expats living abroad. Um, so yeah, that is interesting to tell.

Oscar Orozco: I, I think it's majority Americans. I think the first, uh, game held abroad, I believe it was in London, it was probably- Yeah

Oscar Orozco: 99%

Marcus Johnson: Americans were abroad. Yeah. But I think it's changed quite a lot now. But it's changing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I've been to a few London games. It's, it's definitely an international crowd. Sorry, Drew.

Drew Spink: I was, no, I was gonna say, I think it's actually mostly expats that are there. I, I- Mm-hmm ... I don't think it's domestic people traveling there.

Drew Spink: I mean, especially- Mm-hmm ... like, one, I think one of the games for the NFL season this year is gonna be in Australia. So that's asking- Oh, wow ... Americans to travel- Wow ... plus, plus 18-plus hours on a plane- Mm ... to go watch one football game and then come home. That's a hard [00:27:00] sell. I mean, even- ... even just to go to Europe for most of Americans is very far.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah.

Drew Spink: So it's, I, I'm glad to see that some of those games are being- That's a great point.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah ...

Drew Spink: by, um, British or other European fans.

Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm.

Drew Spink: They're just getting better exposure to the game. But I do think in particular, those are mostly expats that are-

Marcus Johnson: Yeah Yeah, the geography of it, of it definitely matters.

Marcus Johnson: Um, like my sister's an Arsenal fan. Sure. They got beat by PSG. Sorry, Nicole. Oof. Um, and, uh, for her it's a two-hour train from London to Paris. Um, or, uh, well, I don't know where actually where the, the, the game was, but my point being that if you fly around Europe, it's an hour or two to get there. Yeah. Um, the final actually probably was somewhere else at a neutral site.

Marcus Johnson: She probably doesn't wanna go to Paris ever again. I, I should know this, but yeah, it was, uh- You should

Oscar Orozco: know this ... it wasn't

Marcus Johnson: too

Oscar Orozco: far. It wasn't too

Marcus Johnson: far. Shane.

Oscar Orozco: Everything's close within

Marcus Johnson: Europe. Everything's close. Exactly. Exactly. Um, Ariel not- noticed that the intent gap, uh, is, is j- looking like it's gonna be just as wide, uh, moving forward, though.

Marcus Johnson: Ele- 11, just [00:28:00] 11% of US consumers plan to travel for a sporting event in the next year. Uh, 24% of Canadians, 32% of Mexicans according to YouGov. But we'll see. Yeah, maybe, um, if America can, can go far, this could change things. gents, let's end by, um, talking a bit, um, about what marketers can be, can be thinking about here.

Marcus Johnson: Um, what, Oscar, to you is one of the best ways to win fan attention during this competition, or maybe there are things that marketers can replicate at other major sporting events?

Oscar Orozco: I mean, I, I have now experienced it. I've been to a match already. I've, I've been to a, a, this, a big event here down in Brooklyn.

Oscar Orozco: It's, really the, the best way is to connect with, uh, with consumers, I believe. Um, you know, now everything's a, a mix of digital and in person, but it's with, with, uh, g- gamifying things, right? It's not just relying on these traditional scalable TV spots or things like that, but it's [00:29:00] in-stadium activations.

Oscar Orozco: It's about, um, you know, and all of these sponsors are so recognizable, but about, um, you know, making them, uh, just really, uh, a- about having an experience, making the fans experience it in person. And that's what the World Cup does so well. I mean, I, I found a stat from Nielsen saying that it's the most sponsor-friendly audience in sports, anyone who is a World Cup fan.

Oscar Orozco: Mm. Because the World Cup's, is about connecting the world. It's about connecting world fans. So, um, you know, it's, it, whatever the brands do, there is no other event in the world where the brands will connect v- uh, as closely with the sponsors as a, as an event like this. So- Mm-hmm ... uh, those are the types of things that really work.

Marcus Johnson: Stella Artois has a work from the bar campaign, which we've mentioned on the Reimagined Retail show that Ariel hosted last week. Um, and they're basically saying, "Look, fa- fans are gonna wanna watch the game during work. We're gonna try and make it easier for you so you don't have to do it in secret," Oscar.

Marcus Johnson: And, uh, I think it was really, yeah, I think it was a really good way of, to your point, connecting- Marcus, please ... the [00:30:00] audience and speaking, um, and speaking, uh, directly to, to what they want to be doing, um- Mm-hmm ... in that moment, and trying to help them to, to do that. I think they're covering a certain number of bar tabs if you register o- online, so very clever campaign.

Marcus Johnson: Drew, how about you? What are some of the ways you think, um, brands, uh, uh, marketers, uh, can be winning fan attention during this competition or others?

Drew Spink: I mean, I agree with everything Oscar just said, and I can, I think, elaborate a little bit more on those points. But to the core, I agree. It's, o- one of them is just staying consistent.

Drew Spink: I mean, the World Cup is a long event, especially with the- Mm ... expanded format.

Oscar Orozco: Good point.

Drew Spink: So fans, you know, like in the, the Super Bowl, for example, or other American sporting events, there's a lot of big budget advertisements that's just shooting for, like, one big star to pay attention to. I don't think that's as valuable here.

Drew Spink: I think it's the small stuff that you just see over and over again, and you keep coming back to, without necessarily being, like, annoying. But- Yeah ... like putting all your eggs in one basket, like, just for the final doesn't seem as productive to me as doing a bunch of little [00:31:00] ones- Yeah ... in more smaller local type advertisements across the country to just spread it out.

Drew Spink: Yeah. Yeah, that's a great take And then additionally, the, th- what makes the World Cup great is the fans, is the local populations, is the authenticity that is driven by that experience, by fans walking through Inglewood in LA bef- the Bosnian fans, like, shouting and having a parade. Like- I saw this ... it's not, it's not the celebrities that are attending the event- Oh, yeah

Drew Spink: like it is for Super Bowl, where that's very, like, a high-ticket, like, "Look who's- who is here." Yeah. That's not what people engage with when they're coming to this type of sporting event. So I don't- Mm-hmm ... think it kinda going that route solves much either. It's just staying true, authentic, local, and s- almost small in some ways to be, like, relatable to who you're trying to market to.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. To that point, really quick, two things. One, it seemed like there was a overlap, but I think S- Stuart, I don't know if you were telling me this, about how there was a crossover between Knicks fans and Brazil soccer fans running around New [00:32:00] York, uh, and sort of, like, cheering- Yes ... for each other. Um, there was a live- I lived it.

Marcus Johnson: Okay. Well, that's good. Just, just to my, um... And so maybe there's something there where teams, local teams can get on board, whether it's the US team or other clubs, and they can do crossovers to help drum up interest. Um, and then also to what you were saying, Drew, I think it's a great point, the authen- authenticity of the fans' experience.

Marcus Johnson: Another, um, campaign we talked about on the retail show was this, uh, New York Knicks, uh, Nike spot, the, uh, always never slept, always dreamed- Mm-hmm ... uh, where they have the fan running through the streets after the Knicks win, and he's ch- and he gets to a point where there's just, like, uh, a parade of fans, um, basically losing their minds 'cause they just won.

Marcus Johnson: And it, it is just sp- again, it wasn't about a celebrity. It was about, uh, just a normal, uh, New Yorker and the experience that they were having.

Oscar Orozco: Yeah.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. And I'm sure little Oscar, who grew up in Queens, very much- ... identified with that kid in that, in that

Oscar Orozco: commercial, so Absolutely. Yeah. This is... E- exactly, Drew.

Oscar Orozco: I mean, this is the, the biggest [00:33:00] stage to show n- your national pride, you know? Yeah. And, and there's just no other way to do it, so it's, it's really about con- uh, connecting with those specific communities. And fans are, right now they're kind of hovering in s- specific cities because of where their teams play, so there's this real, um, uh, ability, a, a real, um, you know, way to connect the sort of local, like, uh, what you mentioned, Drew, the local communities, cities with these specific, uh, national teams, and- Mm-hmm

Oscar Orozco: uh, a lot of beautiful stuff's coming from that. But that's what it's all about, a cultural festival.

Drew Spink: An example of that would be, I heard, I can't verify this, but I heard it through internet and Twitter that, uh, Samuel Adams got, like, all of their beer got drinken in Boston- Yeah ... by the Scottish fans that were there-

Oscar Orozco: That's right

Oscar Orozco: which is

Drew Spink: crazy if that's true. But, like, they, they kind of marketed themselves as like, "We are the Boston beer," like, "We're the American beer," and that's what everybody was just drinking while they

Marcus Johnson: were there.

Drew Spink: Yeah.

Oscar Orozco: That's a great example.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. Very nice. Exactly. Cheeky Scots. Um, I've got [00:34:00] one last one for you.

Marcus Johnson: Uh, FIFA has introduced three-minute hydration breaks, uh- ... midway... I knew Oscar was gonna wince at that . Midway through each, uh, half, uh, amid expectations of high temperatures. Uh, so that is an additional one... Uh, sorry, an additional 10 hours of advertising potential, TV commercials, displays in arenas, et cetera.

Marcus Johnson: Um, my question was, will this be instituted down the road? It's painful for fans of, of football because they're like, "The game shouldn't be stopped halfway through." However, um, I felt the same way when they were advertising during free throws at basketball games- Yeah ... and now I'm kind of used to it. It doesn't annoy me.

Marcus Johnson: I'm kind of used to it. I do wonder, are they gonna institute this down the road in other major competitions?

Oscar Orozco: I, uh, I think that, I think it will be. Everyone say, "Well, this is the, uh, you know, the Americans turning the sport into four quarters." Sure. That's, that's, that's what's happening. Probably. Uh, but the m- you can't leave that money out, you know- Yes

Oscar Orozco: uh, right, uh, to the side there. So I [00:35:00] do- Yes ... think we'll see it again in four years. Uh, it'll be held in s- uh, Spain, in Portugal and Morocco, 100%. There's no way we won't. No. And there's, uh- Yeah ... advertiser demand for it, and, and I, you know, just a shout-out to, to the forecasting team. We did know about this, and it was, uh, a part of why our, uh...

Oscar Orozco: It w- it factored into our forecast- Oh, wow ... for, for World Cup, yeah. For World Cup- Oh, wow ... converged TV advertising. Please do check out that forecast, listeners. That's why

Marcus Johnson: I love

Oscar Orozco: this team. Um, yeah, and, um- ... and yeah, it's definitely one of the main reasons why Yeah ... uh, we expect growth to be triple digits higher than it, than what we saw in Qatar four years ago.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. And recent World Cups have included drinks breaks, but it's been at the discretion of the ref or when a certain temperature has been reached. It's not been a, "We're gonna- Yep ... we're gonna cut this into four quarters- ... and have extra commercials." Um, but the players definitely need to stay hydrated, so maybe it's for that reason.

Marcus Johnson: It's probably not. That's, um, that's all we've got time for this episode. Uh, I hope to see you all on, uh, this show next month. Um, maybe you two. Uh, I meant [00:36:00] the audience, but maybe you guys will be back. Um- Hey ... thanks for agreeing without agreeing. Thank you to Lance- ... and the production, uh, crew, and Stuart who's helping us out with today's episode, and of course, thank you to my guests.

Marcus Johnson: Thank you to Oscar.

Oscar Orozco: Thanks for having me, Marcus. Yes, please, I'll be back in a month. Just let me know. All right,

Marcus Johnson: nice. I'll see you then. Thank you to Drew.

Drew Spink: Yeah, thank you as well. This was fun, and glad to be here as always.

Marcus Johnson: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you to everyone listening to In the Game, a new marketer sports marketing podcast made possible by Rokt.