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[00:00:00] Marcus Johnson: When a consumer reaches checkout, they're no longer browsing, they're buying. It's a moment of peak intent, attention, and engagement. That's where Rokt comes in. Rokt helps brands reach customers at the moment that matters most, delivering relevant offers and content that feel like a natural part of the transaction experience, not an interruption.

[00:00:19] Marcus Johnson: Learn more at rokt.com. That's R-O-K-T.com

[00:00:27] Marcus Johnson: Hey, gang. It's Monday, June 29th. Cal, Sky, and listeners, welcome to Behind the Numbers, an e-marketer podcast made possible by Rokt. I'm Marcus, and joining me for today's conversation we have two folks, Principal Retail Analyst. She lives in Austin, we call her Sky Canaves. Welcome to the show.

[00:00:44] Sky Canaves: Hey, Marcus.

[00:00:45] Marcus Johnson: Hello there. Also joined by special guest, SVP Strategic Key Accounts at Rokt. Living in New York, it's Cal Donnelly.

[00:00:53] Callum Donnelly: Great to be here. Thanks for having me.

[00:00:55] Marcus Johnson: Hey, fella. Absolute pleasure. Uh, anytime we have a special guest on, we start, of course- ... with a speed intro.

[00:01:05] Marcus Johnson: So two questions for you, uh, Cal, and then one for Sky at the end. Uh, Cal, what do you do in a sentence?

[00:01:12] Callum Donnelly: Uh, I lead our strategic key account experiences vertical, which includes all of our major ticketing, travel, and entertainment clients at Rokt.

[00:01:21] Marcus Johnson: Very nice. Uh, second question I have for you is, um, what's your Mount Rushmore of movies?

[00:01:28] Marcus Johnson: So top four for folks who don't know about-

[00:01:29] Callum Donnelly: That's four, right? Yes. Four movies. Mm-hmm. Four, four presidents. Uh, it's gotta be, uh, Ocean's 11, uh, Snatch- Ooh ... Pulp Fiction-

[00:01:38] Marcus Johnson: Oh ...

[00:01:39] Callum Donnelly: and The Dark Knight, I'm gonna say.

[00:01:41] Marcus Johnson: And the last one's what? Sorry.

[00:01:43] Callum Donnelly: Uh, The Dark Knight. Batman.

[00:01:46] Marcus Johnson: Sky, you might have won already.

[00:01:48] Sky Canaves: Maybe- Wow

[00:01:49] Sky Canaves: with you. Yeah.

[00:01:50] Marcus Johnson: What a list . Coming in swinging. Uh, all right, Sky. What, what's... Wait, hang on a second really quick. Uh, Cal, pick one. What's the top one?

[00:01:59] Callum Donnelly: I loved... I think I watched... I started watching Snatch with my dad when I was, like, 15, 16- Ah ... and we've watched that a million times together.

[00:02:05] Marcus Johnson: Such a good rewatch as well.

[00:02:06] Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. It's... And I... You don't even feel like... With that, I don't feel like I have to... You know some movies you have to wait, I have to wait, like, 20 years for me to forget. Snatch I can watch all the time. 100%. Brilliant choices. All right, Sky, best of luck.

[00:02:18] Sky Canaves: Oh, thank you. My pick is gonna be a- a little more quirky.

[00:02:21] Sky Canaves: I don't know, you might have to put these in the show notes- ... 'cause, uh, two of them are foreign films. Um, but my first- Okay ... is, uh, gonna... I'm gonna go with Amadeus, and then I've got my Chinese films, Raise the Red Lantern and- Okay ... In the Mood for Love. Okay. And I'm gonna wrap it up with WALL-E, and that one would probably get- Oh

[00:02:39] Sky Canaves: my top pick because I've watched it so many times with my daughter. Um- Mm ... it's- it's been on repeat for years.

[00:02:48] Marcus Johnson: Yes. I can't watch it more than once. That should be a horror film. It's terrifying .

[00:02:54] Sky Canaves: It is. The message is

[00:02:54] Marcus Johnson: terrifying.

[00:02:57] Sky Canaves: But very kind of true also. Yes. Still rings true with us.

[00:03:01] Marcus Johnson: Painfully. Painfully true.

[00:03:03] Marcus Johnson: Also, a very, um, uh, uh, uh, resonant rewatch. The others I'm obviously, uh, not aware of, but you lived in China for a bit, so that makes, uh, sense. Not China.

[00:03:16] Sky Canaves: China and Hong Kong. It was China. Yeah.

[00:03:17] Marcus Johnson: Hong Kong is the second, yes. So

[00:03:18] Sky Canaves: I've got one, I've got one Chinese film and one Hong Kong film on there.

[00:03:21] Marcus Johnson: Okay. Very well played.

[00:03:23] Marcus Johnson: Wow, folks, this is a good list. Um, I've got, I've got Nightmare Before Christmas, the Disney film. Mm. That's my f- the best film ever. That's the best one. Uh, Green Mile.

[00:03:33] Callum Donnelly: Mm.

[00:03:33] Marcus Johnson: Wha- Whiplash. You guys seen Whiplash?

[00:03:36] Callum Donnelly: Nope.

[00:03:36] Marcus Johnson: Um, that's brilliant. And, uh, and Lion. Oh, I thought I had a strong list, and then I listened to both of yours.

[00:03:45] Marcus Johnson: Should never have done this. Anyway, today's real topic, why the advertisers winning on performance are buying moments, not media.

[00:03:57] Marcus Johnson: Cal, we want to talk a bit about, well, a lot of things, but one of the words that was kind of, um, coming up a lot, um, when we were talking before the episode was this word, uh, intent. Um, and how, I guess, what that means and how that's, how that's changed. Um, what... Let's start with w- what does intent mean to, to you?

[00:04:18] Marcus Johnson: What do you think of when you hear that word?

[00:04:19] Callum Donnelly: Yeah, it's a great question. I think, you know, from a ROXX perspective, we're all about driving intent. That's essentially how our commercial model and our business works. Mm-hmm. Uh, so as customers are checking out at our high intent, high peak moment where they're focused on what they're purchasing, they're making decisions as they're going through a, a bunch of different checkout experiences, uh, we're all about trying to show the most relevant next best action for those customers.

[00:04:47] Callum Donnelly: And so at the end of the day, what we're here to do is drive intent for our advertisers, intent for our partners, but most importantly, make sure that the intent for the consumer is there. Mm-hmm. And so we think about how do we show up in the right way? How do we show up that's not gonna add additional psychological decisions for the consumer?

[00:05:08] Callum Donnelly: Um, and how do we make sure that when they've selected something, that they're gonna get a great deal, a great benefit, and the experience itself is gonna be really seamless?

[00:05:16] Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm. Um, and how, uh, you have a ton of data coming in, and so you're able to get a really good picture of, um, of intent, um, and a lot of other things as well.

[00:05:27] Marcus Johnson: But what, what stands out the most to you in terms of how, uh, the consumer's intent has changed or changes, uh, over the course, uh, of a year, I guess seasonally? And maybe if you wanna zoom out and look how it, you know, what it used to look like, uh, you know, how many years ago versus today as well.

[00:05:43] Callum Donnelly: Mm. I think, uh, what's been interesting about our business is how much we've grown from both our supply side and our demand side.

[00:05:51] Callum Donnelly: So we're a, we're a three-sided network. Uh, we have e-commerce publishers and partners that we optimize and monetize their traffic. We have advertisers and brands which bid to show up on those cons- on, on, on those e-commerce sites, and then we have the customer. And at the end of the day, everything that we start and stop and think about is the customer and the customer intent because their engagement and their conversion is what drives our entire flywheel and is what's the most important to deliver the right commercial outcomes for all of the different stakeholders that we deal with.

[00:06:25] Callum Donnelly: Mm-hmm. And what we've seen over the, over the last, you know, nine, 10 years that I've been at the organization is that we've added more and more supply to our network across a wide variety of verticals. It started off in travel and ticketing. We then launched across our retail vertical, and now we're, we're essentially in every major kind of industry in the world.

[00:06:45] Callum Donnelly: Think of that from financial services to mobility, uh, to grocery. Seasonality-wise, each of those industries have different times of peaks and troughs. Mm-hmm. But our network doesn't see a huge amount of season- uh, seasonal trends because we're live in all those industries, and we're live with such penetration.

[00:07:06] Callum Donnelly: Mm-hmm. And so what's interesting for us is as an advertiser or a brand- How can you show up in different parts of those industries where at the start of the year ticket sales are on sale for concerts, you know, middle of the year you've got all the summer blockbusters that are coming out, and then at the end of the year you've g- you've got typical retail seasonal trends.

[00:07:25] Callum Donnelly: And so how as you as a brand can show up in different parts of the year based on those industry peak moments is something that's really important to us and really important to the types of companies that we talk to.

[00:07:37] Marcus Johnson: Yeah.

[00:07:37] Sky Canaves: And I, I think the retail intent has shifted a lot over the course of the year, just over the past few years, particularly since the pandemic.

[00:07:45] Sky Canaves: Um, one thing we see is, like, promotional calendars and sales events are shifting, and they continue to shift. We just had a June Prime Day, um, really early that's now twice as long as it was a couple of years ago, and we have a different back to school season. Mm. People shop earlier for holiday gifts. And where we see it most is in the, you know, holiday season, which we define as November, December.

[00:08:09] Sky Canaves: Um, this year we're forecasting that for the second year in a row, uh, holiday season sales growth will be lower than the average for the full year. So it will vary by category. There are some that will accelerate. Mm. But there's a broad deceleration which points to the shifts in consumer behavior and intent o- in, or other parts of the year.

[00:08:29] Callum Donnelly: I think what's interesting there, Sky, is if you think about the start of the year, Fanatics is a perfect example of a retailer that has seasonal trends as the NBA finals happen, the Super Bowl happens. But I think if you said at the start of the year that Fanatics would have their largest ever day with 8,000 plus orders per hour after, or 8,000, uh, 8,000 orders per minute, uh, after the next one.

[00:08:51] Callum Donnelly: Uh, or if you're a Summer House, if you're a s- a Summer House fan, that Sephora would have one of their largest ever social media days when they had a, built a relationship with Ciara to do a whole trust campaign. That came out of not seasonal type experiences. That came out of cultural moments that kind of created a zeitgeist moment for everybody, that if you're a brand that's capable and flexible and, and can take some risks, you can really show up in a, in a way that, that, that really matters.

[00:09:19] Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm.

[00:09:19] Sky Canaves: Yeah, and I think that flexibility is key 'cause there are cultural moments that you can plan for, but then certain things just can take off within them. Mm. So we know the NBA championship is coming, it's got its dates, but the Knicks win, and it's the big team from the big city, more than 50 years since they won.

[00:09:37] Sky Canaves: So it becomes a huge cultural event that kinda resonates across the country 'cause us New Yorkers are all over the place. Sorry, Marcus.

[00:09:46] Marcus Johnson: It's fine. I love you guys, really. It's just my dad who bothers me. Uh, there's, uh, this quote you had, uh, Cow, which I thought was really interesting. This, uh, "Summer, not Q4, is the peak intent window for a s- significant share of the consumer economy."

[00:10:03] Marcus Johnson: Um, I've read that a number of times, and I know that it can be true, but for some reason it's hard for me to wrap my head around how that's possible. What... Tell, tell folks what you mean here and what makes you say that.

[00:10:15] Callum Donnelly: Yeah. I think what we see, and I think, you know, Sky made a, a comment just then around, you know, a prime day in, in the summer months.

[00:10:22] Callum Donnelly: Mm-hmm. If you look at historically, there are some verticals that, uh, are obviously large in the summer space, and that's particularly exhibitors and blockbusters, and that's, uh, live events. And since the pandemic, what's been really interesting is the differences between those two industries. You've had live events have record after record after record year since, since COVID because of all the pent-up, uh, demand.

[00:10:46] Callum Donnelly: And you had massive on-sales, whether it was Taylor Swift a few years ago, uh, or even Bruno Mars just recently, uh, announcing, uh, Harry Styles announcing, uh, uh, you know, 20-plus, uh, tour at MSG. Those moments are typically in the summer and drive a significant demand, not just from a ticket supply perspective, but more importantly from a de- uh, from a brand, uh, perspective.

[00:11:11] Callum Donnelly: You have consumers who are young, who have disposable income, who are showing up to multi-day events or multi-day, uh, uh, concert series and are spending a ton of money, both leading up to the event and at the event itself.

[00:11:25] Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm.

[00:11:25] Callum Donnelly: And then I think about what's super interesting this year, which is for the first year since COVID- The movie industry will have the largest ticket sales since 2019.

[00:11:37] Callum Donnelly: And if you listen to any of the earnings reports for any of the publicly listed companies that live in the exhibitor space, they continually compare their ticket sales and their performance to 2019. This is the first year they're gonna actually exceed those, uh, ticket sales. Oh, wow. And that space in itself is now becoming more experiential.

[00:11:55] Callum Donnelly: So consumers aren't just going to the movie and buying the popcorn and the drink, but they're actually buying merchandise, and they're creating an entire event around friends and family, uh, to go and see Toy Story or to see The Odyssey. And I think what's such an interesting change in the, in the, in, in how brands can show up, but more importantly the consumer trends, is the fact that these types of events are becoming experiential, and they're becoming kind of multi-day or at least, uh, a day out event.

[00:12:22] Callum Donnelly: That means that there's a lot more consumer spending to take capture of and to try and drive conversion f- uh, towards as well.

[00:12:28] Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:29] Sky Canaves: Yeah. I think when it comes to experiences, what we see is there are these emotional commitments to experience that exist both before and after the event because you're planning for it, you're preparing for it.

[00:12:40] Sky Canaves: Things like going to the movies or going to a concert, they're... The prices have gone up a lot, so they become more expensive. They're more of an investment in terms of budget and then the emotions that are attached with it. And then because of social media, people wanna share that and commemorate it, and that's an opportunity for retail as well, you know, in that post-experience, um, buying a souvenir or merchandise or gifts around, around an experience.

[00:13:09] Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm Um, so this is, I mean, this, Cal, when you talk about the differences between, um, the difference between the consumer who, who shows up to a must-see cultural event and the consumer who shows up for a regular weekend, this is what you guys are talking about.

[00:13:22] Callum Donnelly: Exactly. Yeah. Uh, you've got a different type of mindset when you have a cultural event that's once in a lifetime, once in 50-plus years, wait- uh, waiting for the Knicks to win, uh, a Taylor Swift concert, where these people have spent both their lifetime waiting for this type of event and then are willing to spend a considerable amo- amount of money to make sure they're at the event.

[00:13:44] Callum Donnelly: Mm-hmm. And they are creating an experience for themselves, for their friends, and their family to really commemorate what is an incredibly special time in their life. And so they're willing to hear from brands, listen to brands, um, and ensure that that experience is kind of world-class for whatever that means to them.

[00:14:02] Callum Donnelly: Mm-hmm. Then you've got the other types of consumers that are, you know, regular, uh, more kind of utilitarian-type consumers. They're getting their Ubers, they're getting Uber Eats, they're getting Grub- whatever it is, getting grocery. And it's a different type of engagement and conversion event that you're probably trying to target there.

[00:14:17] Callum Donnelly: So it's all about just trying to remember at what moment you're trying to target a consumer, where they're at in their journey, and do they wanna be interrupted? Are they interested in a, in an offer or not? And understanding between those two kind of a zeitgeist moment versus a more regular, uh, ordinary experience, what's actually gonna resonate with that consumer at that time.

[00:14:36] Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm. So speaking about the right moment to target a consumer, um- Y- y- um, you say that Rokt believes one of the most valuable moments are the immediate, uh, seconds post-purchase. Um, and this is another one of those things like you said before about Q4, um, you know, not being the only, uh, time of the year, and summer having a, a significant amount of importance in terms of intents.

[00:15:00] Marcus Johnson: Um, this is one of those things where I, I hear it, but I'd still, um... something's not making sense to me, uh, in terms of why after someone's just bought something are they, um, uh, um, um, a key, a key person for folks to go after. So to you, what, what's happening, uh, i- in the kind of moments, the seconds after someone completes the transaction, and why is that moment so important to Rokt?

[00:15:24] Callum Donnelly: Yeah, it's a great question. I think there's, there's three criti- critical reasons for why this moment, and the transaction moment in general, is such a powerful opportunity for brands to acquire customers and for our e-commerce partners to, to monetize and optimize their experience. Number one, it's incredibly rich in first-party data.

[00:15:44] Callum Donnelly: When you're buying a ticket on Ticketmaster or you're buying a T-shirt on The Gap, you're not putting in a fake email address or a fake address because you need that ticket delivered to your email and you need that white T-shirt delivered to your home address. And so you're putting in all of your primary, real first-party information.

[00:16:03] Callum Donnelly: So the ability for smart businesses that leverage ML and AI to build lookalike audiences and to power the right type of next best action Is incredibly powerful because of that first-party data that's been inputted by the consumer themselves.

[00:16:19] Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm.

[00:16:20] Callum Donnelly: The second core reason is that consumer has just gone down a incredibly long buying journey.

[00:16:26] Callum Donnelly: Even a buying journey where it's as simple as getting an Uber still requires you to think and still requires you to be focused on, is my address right? Uh, the, is my pickup address right? And is my, is my drop-off location right? And so you're not multi-scrolling, right? You are not on your, your, your laptop and your phone.

[00:16:43] Callum Donnelly: You're not watching TV and your phone. You're really focused on that moment to make sure that whatever you're purchasing or booking at that moment is accurate, and so engagement is incredibly high post, uh, post-checkout as well. And then the third reason is this idea of what we call the buying mindset.

[00:17:00] Callum Donnelly: Consumers are excited to buy things. It's one of the only places online where there's actual dopamine and a positive psychological experience in the world of social media and all of the, the challenges that, that, that creates. This is a moment that people are actually excited. And so when you create first-party data with the buying mindset, with this, with this capability of, of engagement, you have a really amazing opportunity to show up to a consumer and offer a reward or a acquisition event that's actually gonna feel like it's a gift post-checkout, but also something that's gonna be additive to their experience.

[00:17:39] Callum Donnelly: And if you can do that in the right way, Marcus, I think what's, what's really pivotal here is- The consumer has, has, has well has already made a lot of decisions up until that point.

[00:17:48] Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm.

[00:17:48] Callum Donnelly: The last thing you wanna do is overburden them with- Right ... more decisions, what we call the paradox of choice. And so showing up in the right way, in a native and frictionless environment, in a way that's actually gonna be, uh, rewarding to that consumer based on all the things we know about them, uh, that's the, that's the pivotal experience to make sure that both the, at the end of the day, what the consumer is seeing and is actually gonna be something they engage with.

[00:18:12] Sky Canaves: Mm-hmm. That's such a fascinating psychological angle in terms of the shopper- Yeah ... mindset. There's, like, post-purchase momentum 'cause it's not item- Mm ... bought, case closed. There's still an opening there for offers and targeting that is highly relevant and personal. I think it has to feel easy, low friction, and very relevant to whatever mindset the shopper is already in, what's led them to the purchase that they just completed.

[00:18:39] Sky Canaves: And I guess that's different from retargeting that takes place later. It's not that, where it's not that immediate moment-

[00:18:46] Callum Donnelly: Yeah, exactly ... that

[00:18:47] Sky Canaves: you're trying to capture. Yeah.

[00:18:48] Callum Donnelly: A- and there are ways, guys, some of the new products that we've, we've built are things that, like, we call shopper rewards. So it's all about actually trying to incentivize that customer to come back to the t- t- uh, to the e-commerce retailer site after they've purchased, uh, uh, th- that original product.

[00:19:05] Callum Donnelly: Mm-hmm. So we offer things like gift cards and loyalty loop and, and other ways to not just get a consumer to engage with the brand's offer, but actually give it a reason for that customer to come back and, and actually purchase on, on the publisher's side. And we offer things like gift cards and, and loyalty points and things like that, which is all about trying to create a flywheel within the ecosystem itself.

[00:19:23] Callum Donnelly: We wanna have consumers not just finish their purchase and leave. We want them to actually have an action that's gonna be exciting and rewarding for them in that moment, but also incentivizes them to come back into the network and, and continue to purchase things, uh, as well.

[00:19:37] Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm. Before you explain, so I h- I re- I read this about, you know, the perfect moment is right after someone's bought something.

[00:19:45] Marcus Johnson: Before you explain it, I'm like, "This is madness." And then right after I'm like, "This is genius. This makes, this makes too much sense. How did I not see it?" Um, I guess it's, yeah, it's kinda like solving a Rubik's cube. It's like if you know how to, then you're just like, "Okay, yeah, now it just makes..." But before you do, it's just, um, something that you can't even wrap your head around.

[00:20:04] Marcus Johnson: Um, so yeah, no, thanks for laying that out, um, so clearly as well. Um, let's end the episode with, uh, talking about, uh, CMO. Um, what would you say to the CMOs listening, uh, or to the marketing folks listening, if that's not necessarily your title, uh, to this episode, who wants to apply this level of thinking, um, to their planning and, and where would they, where might they begin?

[00:20:29] Callum Donnelly: I think, uh, I'll, I'll say from the, from the pa- publisher side and then, and then from the brand side. Um, I think from the publisher side, retail media is, is now kind of synonymous in this space, and it's, I think, now shifted to commerce media. This, this opportunity to not just monetize your customer's experience, but optimize it and make sure that the consumer, so the customer that you've spent all this time and energy getting into your ecosystem, getting them through the funnel, and then finally getting them to purchase, you're treating them with the utmost respect The types of businesses that are optimizing that entire full funnel are the types of businesses that I would wanna work with because they understand the consumer from the moment they enter the homepage all the way through to the end of that experience, and making sure that you create a really seamless environment, a seamless checkout moment.

[00:21:17] Callum Donnelly: But a, but a moment that gives you the opportunity to monetize and/or optimize that experience in different ways. It could be through third-party advertising, it could be first-party initiatives, it could be showing a, a great co-brand offer. But actually understanding who the customer is is gonna be critical to the ability f- to get customers to stay in your network- Mm-hmm

[00:21:36] Callum Donnelly: and to not leverage things like AI, not to go to Google, but to actually go to your website first. And I think that's something that, uh, m- more and more CMOs we talk to every day, uh, are really thinking about how do they actually solve that problem. It's a hard problem to solve, but there are- Mm-hmm ... lots of good businesses out there that help.

[00:21:51] Callum Donnelly: Um- Yeah ... I think on the brand side, I think what's interesting is it's really hard to time cultural moments. Um, to Sky's point- Yes ... we know that the NBA finals is happening, but we didn't know it was gonna be, uh, you know, the Knicks winning in such in a dramatic fashion after an amazing playoff experience.

[00:22:08] Callum Donnelly: And you need to be flexible, you need to have some sort of risk, and you need to condense your planning cycles to be able to take advantage to show up in those moments. Mm-hmm. And I think if you can do that in a way that enables you to have s- really smart people, uh, think about the moment itself and how you can show up in a way that's actually gonna be meaningful to the fan base, to the fandom, to whatever that, that cultural event is, that's gonna drive the right type of conversation, whether that's an immediate conversion event that you're looking for, an immediate acquisition, or a broader brand s- uh, story that, that, that you're trying to tell.

[00:22:42] Callum Donnelly: And I think there's some really smart businesses that do that today, um, that get both of those pieces right. And I think- Mm-hmm ... uh, if you can, if you can continue to be flexible and continue to be risk, uh, kind of risk on in some of those moments, um, it can be a, it can be a huge windfall for your, for your organization.

[00:22:57] Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Um, Sky, any closing thoughts? Yeah.

[00:23:01] Sky Canaves: Yeah, I'm looking forward to the rest of the summer. I know there are a lot of big additional cultural moments- Mm-hmm ... in addition to the World Cup, like, uh- Mm-hmm ... Taylor Swift's wedding. Talk about once in a lifetime- Oh ... things that her fans have been waiting for.

[00:23:14] Sky Canaves: Fantastic. Yeah. And Olivia Rodrigo just announced a concert, uh, a festival, uh, later in the summer, which sounds amazing and, and will draw so much attention, particularly from younger consumers who are, you know, the o- often the ones who are still spending in this environment, who are looking- Mm-hmm ... for those experiences and, and everything that goes along with them.

[00:23:33] Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm. Um, an excellent note to end on, folks. Thank you so much for your time today. I thank first Sky.

[00:23:40] Sky Canaves: Thank you, Marcus.

[00:23:41] Marcus Johnson: Thanks for being here. Thank you, of course, to Cal.

[00:23:44] Callum Donnelly: Thank you, Marcus

[00:23:45] Marcus Johnson: Yes, sir. Thank you to the production crew, uh, Lawrence and Danny helping us out with this one. Uh, and to everyone for listening in to Behind the Numbers, the marketer podcast made possible by Rocked.

[00:23:52] Marcus Johnson: Thank you for listening. I'll be back tomorrow, uh, with a Tuesday episode, uh, an episode of In the Game, uh, discussing how advertisers can win the World Cup. Not really, 'cause England will, but you get it. We probably won't.

[00:24:08] Callum Donnelly: No, I don't think so.

[00:24:09] Marcus Johnson: Okay, Cal.

Cal, okay.