Atmosphere TV is the largest streaming TV platform purpose-built for shared, social spaces like bars, restaurants, gyms, and airports. Atmosphere TV is the creator of ChiveTV and 30+ mesmerizing, audio-optional channels that entertain over 150 million monthly viewers.

Built for business, made for fun. Atmosphere TV. Learn more.

Marcus Johnson: Atmosphere TV is the largest streaming TV platform purpose-built for shared social spaces like bars, restaurants, gyms, and airports. Atmosphere TV is the creator of CHIVE TV and over 30 mesmerizing audio-optional channels that entertain over 150 million monthly viewers. Built for business, but made for fun, Atmosphere TV

Marcus Johnson: Hey, gang, it's Friday, October 2nd. Suzy, Lindsay, Gloria, and listeners, welcome to Behind the Numbers, an eMarketer podcast made possible by Atmosphere TV. I'm Marcus. And joining me for today's conversation, we have three people. Living in New York, VP of content, head of our retail desk, and Reimagining Retail podcast host, what doesn't she do?

Marcus Johnson: Suzy Davidkhanian.

Suzy Davidkhanian: Hello. Thanks for having me.

Marcus Johnson: Why, of course. Thank you for being here. Calling Boston home, SVP and head of marketing at Atmosphere TV, Lindsay Sutton joins the show.

Lindsay Sutton: Hello.

Marcus Johnson: Hello there. And, uh, based in New York City, chancellors professor emerita, uh, of informatics at the University of California, Irvine, Gloria Mark.

Marcus Johnson: Welcome.

Gloria Janet Mark : Glad to be here.

Marcus Johnson: Oh, it's a pleasure. Um, anytime we have special guests on, we of course start with a speed intro.

Marcus Johnson: Uh, all right. So first question, I'll start with you, Lindsay. We'll go Gloria. Suzy, you don't need to do this one 'cause they know you, they know who you work for. Uh, but Lindsay, what does your company do in a sentence, and what do you do for them in another?

Lindsay Sutton: Great. So as a reminder, I work at Atmosphere TV, and we are an entertainment company, and we provide mesmerizing content for TV screens in shared spaces like bars, restaurants, gyms, airports, you name it.

Lindsay Sutton: And like Marcus said, I am the head of marketing, so I am responsible for our brand and how it comes to life outside in the world.

Marcus Johnson: Very nice. And Gloria, you are at the University of California. What do you do there?

Gloria Janet Mark : That's right. So I do research. I write books about our life in this digital world, how we pay attention or don't in relation to screens.

Gloria Janet Mark : I teach our next generation who are gonna be using these screens.

Marcus Johnson: Amazing. Amazing. Um, all right, second question to you all. We'll start with Lindsay. What's the most interesting thing you've read, watched, or listened to recently?

Lindsay Sutton: Man, this was a tough one. Um, I recently read the memoir by Carol Radziwill. I can't...

Lindsay Sutton: I'm pronouncing her last name wrong, called What Remains, about JFK Jr. and Carolyn Bessette and her relationship with them. I got so into it from Love Story and hearing it from her perspective because she's just, you know, an award-winning journalist. I don't know. It's pretty epic, so if you haven't read it yet, go for it.

Marcus Johnson: Good rec. Very nice. Gloria.

Gloria Janet Mark : I recently read James by Percival Everett. Uh, it's fiction. I usually read nonfiction. This is a phenomenal book. I believe it won the Pulitzer Prize.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah.

Gloria Janet Mark : A- anyone who wants, uh, good fiction, it's, it's the story of Huckleberry Finn from the perspective of Jim. Yeah. It's, it's amazing.

Marcus Johnson: Okay. Second person to recommend that to me in the last two weeks. Um, but yeah, won the Pulitzer Prize in the last couple of years, I think. Um, great rec. Suzy.

Suzy Davidkhanian: Wait, I

Marcus Johnson: get- High bar ...

Suzy Davidkhanian: I get to participate in this part?

Marcus Johnson: This, just this one. Actually, never mind. No, I'm kidding. Go ahead.

Suzy Davidkhanian: I don't, I don't know. I don't have anything.

Suzy Davidkhanian: I think maybe the-

Marcus Johnson: Did you not have anything?

Suzy Davidkhanian: No, 'cause I never get to do this part. But I will tell you, I did see Seth God- Godin. I don't know how to say his last name properly. Seth Godin, G-O-D-I-N, speak at a conference that I was at, and he was excellent, and he has a new book that's coming out. It's on my table, and I'm ready to read it.

Suzy Davidkhanian: It's called The Knot, and he is really well-known in the marketing, sort of like how do you, uh, get people to think about your brand, and he has some interesting, new for me sort of takes on this idea of authenticity. Cool. So I'm looking forward to reading the book.

Marcus Johnson: Very nice. Very nice, folks. Uh, well, they are our guests today, but today's real topic is log off, look up.

Marcus Johnson: Why is everyone craving real life again?

Marcus Johnson: So is our relationship with screens really changing? Recent Pew Research Center survey found over half of American adults say they spend too much time on their smartphones. Close to half have tried to cut back. Uh, close to 40 US states have full or partial phone bans for student cellphone use in public schools.

Marcus Johnson: We're rethinking young people's, uh, starting age for social media. Meta has agreed to issue, uh, time limits, nighttime blocks, hiding like counts, et cetera. Uh, this doesn't mean people hate technology, just that society is looking for a different relationship with screens. And what would a healthier relationship with screens actually look like?

Marcus Johnson: Uh, Lindsay, I'll start with you for the first one. In your opinion, what are we starting to see with regards to people wanting something different from our relationship with screens?

Lindsay Sutton: Yeah, I... It's really interesting because I think we just have other choices now. After COVID where we were so, I would say, reliant on that connection with the outside world inside of our phones for so long, that now we are just prioritizing living over other things.

Lindsay Sutton: So whether that living is going to a run club or playing mahjong, not me, not yet. Um, someone can convince me to do it. It'll get you. But I know it will. Um, but those types of things where you see that, like, things like gym memberships and check-ins at gyms have skyrocketed. People are traveling again.

Lindsay Sutton: That's going up. Community involvement is increasing. I really think that there's this shift happening where living is really taking precedent in people's life. I also think that people are having more time because they have these varied schedules now. So instead of me spending two hours commuting in and out of Boston every day, I have an additional hours to be spent, and those are intentionally away from screens.

Lindsay Sutton: Of course, it changes by age, to your point, with kids and those types of things. But I do think when you start looking at folks and their reliance on screens from the COVID era into now, there's a real shift in how we're prioritizing our time.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. G- Gloria, is this because we're just getting further away from the pandemic?

Marcus Johnson: Why, why now? Why, why are we trying to change our relationship with screens now?

Gloria Janet Mark : Yeah, so first of all, there, there is a trend, and it, it's a trend that started before COVID, which is that people are having a lot of trouble paying attention. So there was a recent survey, three-quarters of the people reported that they just can't pay attention anymore.

Lindsay Sutton: Mm.

Gloria Janet Mark : So pe- people are starting to feel ef- effects. They're reporting that it's affecting their sleep, it's affecting their relationships. So I, I, I think people have reached a point where they really wanna make a change because they're starting to feel the effects. Stress is at an all-time high. I mean, and, and this actually start- the increase started before the pandemic.

Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm.

Gloria Janet Mark : So, you know, we saw a little blip during the pandemic, but these trends have been ongoing for a while. So I feel that people want to make a change because they're concerned about their health and wellbeing And they, they just don't wanna continue the same trajectory

Lindsay Sutton: I, I think the attention span and, like, literally not being able to pay attention also, to your point about health, includes loneliness.

Lindsay Sutton: And it- Yes ... includes things that are making them feel really actually separate from society. And so you start looking at, I mean, there's a million different stats on it, to be able to look at that I feel like, you know, my time specifically with social media, right? Is it's making me feel lonely. It's making me feel depressed.

Lindsay Sutton: And we have seen kind of this, I, or at least I see, and of course I'm finding it in my feed, which is, like, breaking my phone, things like that where I'm ne- needing something to help me get away. But you think about health and really the factors, um, that are aiding in kind of deteriorating health, and a lot of it stems from that.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah.

Suzy Davidkhanian: I do think it's- Susie, it's,

Marcus Johnson: please, please, please

Suzy Davidkhanian: Oh, no, sorry. I was just gonna say, I do think all of that sort of comes together in terms of a rebalancing. So it's not that people are not on screens anymore, it's just that they're choosing to their, spend their time differently. So if a digital experience can help you get to something faster, like shopping for example, right?

Suzy Davidkhanian: If it's more convenient- Mm-hmm ... to buy something online than to go to a store that's three hours' drive, you're still gonna do that. But there, there is this sort of saturation of digital experiences that is pushing people more and more over into a real world, uh, experience. And I think, I think AI is making that even more sort of noticeable in that there is that efficiency gain, but there's also this trust sort of, we don't always trust everything we see online, but when you see it with your own eyes, you start to trust it more, and you start to feel like you're part of a, you know, a dif- it's a different community feeling.

Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm. You

Gloria Janet Mark : know- So, so let me talk about a, a very basic psychological idea that's been around forever. It's called the law of least effort, which is that humans naturally gravitate to doing that thing that's the easiest, that requires the, the least amount of effort. People stay home and stream because it's a lot easier than going out to theaters, and theater attendance, in fact, has, has declined.

Gloria Janet Mark : People order delivery rather than going out, uh, and picking up food. Um, actually, when it... He- here's a statistic that, that really kind of blew my mind. People are actually walking faster when they are, when they do go out, and when they walk faster, it leaves less opportunity to spontaneously connect- Wow

Gloria Janet Mark : with someone. You're, you're rushing by. We have these pedestrian highways. So we're, we're seeing all these trends when we talk about loneliness that are, you know, they're kind of- Ah, conjoining- Mm-hmm ... to, to create a, a, a, a loneliness epidemic as, ah, our former surgeon general described it as. Yeah.

Lindsay Sutton: I heard this crazy term, and I did not come up with it, but that of Gen Z and even some, I would say, older Gen Alpha, that they actually go the opposite where they...

Lindsay Sutton: The term was friction maxing. That they will actually- Yeah ... put down their phone, their device for that ease or comfort because they're like, "Forget it. I'd rather have the flip phone," not the new one, but the flip phone. You know, the OG, if you will, or they, you know- Yeah ... they'd rather figure out how to get the thing where it needs to go physically versus digitally.

Lindsay Sutton: And that has- Mm-hmm ... stuck with me quite a bit 'cause I'm like, you know, that's, again, talking about earlier, like, the prioritization of things and how you wanna spend your time. But friction maxing, I, I think, again, that's probably more a generational thing than any, but it is something, and I didn't know if, Gloria, you're seeing that too.

Gloria Janet Mark : Yeah, yeah. So friction maxing has, you know, we're, we're hearing it in the, in the public narrative, but there's a difference between friction maxing and putting in effort to, you know, to achieve wellbeing. So friction maxing is about creating some kind of barrier, say, between you and your phone to make it harder to pick up your phone.

Gloria Janet Mark : Whereas contrast that with the idea of putting in effort to go out and be with another human being or being in nature, which is proven to help or, uh, reduce stress and improve wellbeing. So there's a lot of ways that people can overcome what I talked about, this law of least effort. They can overcome it and put in effort and reap a reward, which is a, a deeper sense of wellbeing.

Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm. It's interesting, it's like almost a paradox though, and Suzy, I feel like we've seen it in retail where, um, people say they don't feel good about the economy, they're a bit nervous about prices, um, and about, uh, their jobs and maybe going away, and, but then they keep spending. And it feels like there's a bit of a paradox here 'cause we're hearing a lot about this.

Marcus Johnson: But according to our own forecasts, average time spent per day with media, total media, digital and traditional, is... I mean, digital's definitely going up. But overall, we've got 13 and a half hours- Yeah ... 13 hours 26 minutes to be specific- Yeah ... today, and going up 12 minutes next year, and then finding another 10 minutes to stack on top of that the following year.

Marcus Johnson: Uh, Gloria, are you seeing any research, any data that's suggesting that actually we, people, they're saying they want a different relationship with screens, and we're actually starting to, to perhaps see it somewhere in the, in the numbers?

Gloria Janet Mark : Uh, we're, we're not seeing it on a large scale.

Marcus Johnson: Okay.

Gloria Janet Mark : So we're, we're hearing about it from individuals, or there might be small groups, you know, that are forming, you know, collectives like, "Hey, let's put down our phones.

Gloria Janet Mark : Let's, let's enjoy life without screens." But on a large scale, when we look overall, we're, we're not seeing any kind of, uh, change-

Marcus Johnson: Yeah ...

Gloria Janet Mark : in, in this data. Yeah.

Marcus Johnson: If we scratch a bit below the surface, uh, Lindsay, what we have seen is that people are spending more time with CTV. They're spending more time with their television, uh, and a bit less time with those more perhaps isolated digital experiences.

Marcus Johnson: Uh, atmosphere is, um, uh, screen-based, but it's just on TVs. What makes, um- a physical kind of real world atmosphere experience different in your opinion?

Lindsay Sutton: Yeah, I mean, this is so corny, but it's the atmosphere that you're in, right? Where it's, it's, you're, it's a state of mind. So when you're at home, yes, you might be watching with your, your family or whatnot, especially a live game, but in, when you're out, I, I kind of think about it as being additive to what you're doing.

Lindsay Sutton: So if you're out and you're having a beer and a burger with your bestie, you're ha- you're in this sort of kind of light-hearted lovely place of connecting, and we are additive to that moment, right? So it could be the type of thing where it could have something that is, you know, on the screen typically, right, you might have the news, or you might have ESPN on mute, or there's something on there that's not really adding to it.

Lindsay Sutton: We sort of pride ourselves on we have 30-plus channels of different types of content that we create and curate totally in-house, but it's all non-polarizing. So it's not some big debate. It's not some big thing. I kind of think of us as, like, if Switzerland had a party. Like, that's the type of thing- ... right, like, where it's just like it's really happy stuff.

Lindsay Sutton: So we l- have a channel actually called Happy TV. We have one called Paws, but it's all pets. That's the one my kids always pick. Um, but there's those types of things where it's their state of mind where they feel like they are... It's not just... A- and they're locked in. It is mesmerizing, I have to say, just in that way, where you're like, "Oh, that's really interesting," and you keep watching it.

Lindsay Sutton: But it's part of something else that's going on in your life, and so that communal shared space that you're in, whether it's a bar or restaurant, airport, et cetera, you're kind of doing something for you- Mm-hmm ... and we're part of that versus this isolated one-time, one-way experience that you might have with a phone.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah.

Gloria Janet Mark : So I, I have a question for you, Lindsey. Yeah. So when people are in a collective situation and they're watching, uh, TV, how does that change their interactions, their relationships with each other as opposed to being in a place where there is no media?

Lindsay Sutton: Yeah. I would say that one thing, it's really nice in ter- in terms of your point of, like, walking very fast to not interact with people.

Lindsay Sutton: We really pride ourselves on even putting in between our content sort of, you know, typical, like, commercial breaks, and there are those for sure, but the type of thing where we have prompts to ask your neighbor something or ask the person you're with. Like, you know, what would go, go faster, a bird, like, this bird or that bird, right?

Lindsay Sutton: Like, little things like that to t- start to generate conversation with your neighbor so it becomes part of it. There's trivia. There's lots of different things that actually engage you in the moment in a participatory way with, say, your neighbor. So it could be a friend that you're with. It could be strangers.

Lindsay Sutton: We have people yelling at screens in a really positive way, right? If there's trivia up and you're like, "No, it's definitely this," and you're, you know, saying, "It's definitely that," and you're connecting with people. So to me, that's the big differentiator, which is, like, we are using the screen to be able to, like, kind of extract the goodness that you're sharing with others or help to encourage you to interact perhaps with a stranger.

Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm. Uh, it does, it definitely seems like all screens aren't created equal. Uh, we've had screens for a really long time, but in terms of the loneliness, in terms of the isolation, um, in terms of the, the attention spans, Gloria, um, w- what are you seeing in terms of how people view screen time across different size screens and devices?

Marcus Johnson: And also, i- is it just a, a kind of pull away from screens? Is that the solution, or do you think there is a way that we can, um, redefine what screen time means and, and change it from being, uh, perhaps a, a bad word, a bad thing to do, into something where, um, we can see it in more positive light? 'Cause it depends what you're doing on that screen.

Marcus Johnson: If you're using that screen- Right, right ... to, to book something positive, to interact with, you know, to video chat with a family member back home, that's different from the things that people are trying to get away from.

Gloria Janet Mark : That's, you're absolutely right.

Lindsay Sutton: So I mean, I worry that

Gloria Janet Mark : people forget how to be with others without screens, right?

Gloria Janet Mark : So there's this, you might have heard of phubbing, which is people pull out their smartphones when they're in interaction with other people because they, you know, people have forgotten what it's like to simply interact with other people without media. And so, um, you know, it's becomes a crutch. Uh, so, you know, I've, I've spoken with people who talk about using media as a way to shield themselves from other people.

Gloria Janet Mark : Uh, they, they might wear headphones, right? Mm-hmm. As a way to signal, "Hey, stay away from me." Yeah. You know, "I'm, I'm in my own space." Or they might use phones, so if they're on s- in a public place, they'll pull out their phone to signal that they don't want anyone to disturb them.

Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm.

Gloria Janet Mark : Whereas, you know, k- think about if you didn't have screens, if you didn't have phones, you would, might turn to someone and smile and say hello, which I try, a- and it, it actually works wonders.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah.

Gloria Janet Mark : Yeah. Smile at strangers. Talk to strangers. And they, you know, they usually smile back. They usually talk to you.

Marcus Johnson: Uh, it's a book, uh, The End of Absence by Michael Harris that I read a while ago. And, um, uh, yeah, he, he talks about, uh, reclaiming what we've lost in a world of, uh, constant connection. Yes.

Marcus Johnson: And just being, having those, having those breaks, and being okay with those breaks. Um, and also, if you're talking to someone, trying to think about what you're gonna ask them next, as opposed to if all of a sudden things go blank, like you said, I didn't realize that had a word, but I've definitely seen it happen- Yeah

Marcus Johnson: where people would panic, and they're like, "Oh, my God," and they pull out their phone 'cause- ... they've run out of things to say. Um, Suzy, for the retail side of things, um, o- online shopping, we thought it was gonna take over the world, uh, but certainly America, and still below 20%, uh, of all of the shopping we do is online, even though it feels like probably most of it for a lot of folks.

Marcus Johnson: Um, can you talk to us a bit about s- what retailers are doing in terms of creating experiences that people actually want to spend time in?

Suzy Davidkhanian: So on the retail front, right, you have to have product that is gonna get people into a store that is not necessarily available online, or you do an experience. So and it doesn't have to be a, a flashy experience.

Suzy Davidkhanian: It could be, like we were talking about before, contextual and additive. So Sephora, for example, has had experiences in stores forever, right? They're inviting you to come and try on the product and sample things. There are real humans that are helping you, uh, decide what is the right thing for you. They have the beauty, I think it's called the Beauty Studio, where it's a lot of lights, where they're helping you get ready.

Suzy Davidkhanian: And so, like, there, there's people that are helping you with the right Shampoos and conditioners and haircare for your texture. So when we think about experiences, we often start to think about, like, Nike World and, like, basketball courts. But it doesn't have to be that. It could be simple things- Mm-hmm

Suzy Davidkhanian: that are additive. Lego invites everybody to play, and they have all those little blocks that you can pick the ones you need, and you can start making things. And some of these stores, most of these stores have a digital screen. Usually it's a TV that's additive to the experience, but it's not centered around that, and I think that's the key part that we have to remember, that-

Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm

Suzy Davidkhanian: you don't have to go big to earn attention.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Yeah, you said the word people a lot there, which I think is the important part because- Mm-hmm ... um, a lot of people are, a lot of retailers in particular, are trying to create physical spaces that are Instagrammable. Uh, and you gotta think more about how can you design a space that people will remember as opposed to one that they just want to be photographed in.

Marcus Johnson: Uh, people are the reason.

Gloria Janet Mark : I, I will tell you that the experiences I remember the most in retail i- are when a, a salesperson Interacts with me.

Marcus Johnson: Yep.

Gloria Janet Mark : And, and when there's a, a special kind of interaction. When they're helping me, when they, when I learn something from them about the product or, or something else, those are the, the experiences that stay with me.

Gloria Janet Mark : And the, and that's why I go back-

Suzy Davidkhanian: Mm-hmm ...

Gloria Janet Mark : to certain stores.

Marcus Johnson: Yes. Yeah. Well,

Suzy Davidkhanian: and you know- Yeah,

Marcus Johnson: absolutely ...

Suzy Davidkhanian: we're all, everybody generally speaking, is focused on Instagrammable moments. I mean, it's a, it's a term we've coined, right? And so it's clearly there. But I think I would argue in this instance, that experience is the product.

Suzy Davidkhanian: People are coming to feel- Mm-hmm ... that experience, whatever that way is that the coffee shop is trying to make you feel or the department store. And if you have a great experience, then you're gonna be proud and you're a part of a community, and then you're gonna post about it. Yeah, are there people that are just going there to take the picture and, and have it like a badge of honor?

Suzy Davidkhanian: Maybe. But I think generally speaking, it's about this communal shared experience that people are going for. And that goes back to, you know, we are a community, and we, we are people. Again, I'm saying the word people, and we all wanna come together. And whether it's on screen or off screen, there's a, like a fake food court by my house in New York where they do game nights.

Suzy Davidkhanian: And, you know- Yeah ... we were talking about adulting. And, and UNO has started doing UNO nights. Like, I think there is this resurgence of getting off of your screens and being in an experience. But again, it doesn't have to be flashy. Mm-hmm.

Lindsay Sutton: Yeah. I think, too, the one, some of the best, like, retail experiences also for me have drawn on a collective insight.

Lindsay Sutton: Like, I love, and Suzy, I'm sure this is probably in your book of things, but like when Lululemon did that dupe swap- Oh ... that to me was... I mean, that was huge. That was all over Instagram and TikTok, right? That was one of the things. But it hit on such a core insight of what people were doing and how they were spending their time and where they were going elsewhere, but they created this lovely experience.

Lindsay Sutton: It was short-lived, right? It wasn't forever. You got those Instagram moments. But I think part of it, too, it hit at, at such a time where it hit on a great insight. But it also hit at a time where, like, you wanted to see the other people that were in there, and you were connecting with people. And I think that sort of, like we've all been talking about, it's like this lost art of connection and talking to the person next to you on the plane.

Lindsay Sutton: And it's, I don't know if you have seen those TikToks where they go through the generations of how you act next to sitting somebody on a plane, where like when you put your headphones in, when you don't, when you talk to them. And it's like that piece about coming together I think really is the big shift in what I'm looking at in from the advertising marketing, you know, lens where I'm like- Building out those journeys of what people do during their day, like we gotta ha- factor that piece in.

Lindsay Sutton: Mm-hmm. It's not just I bought from this place to this to this with my head down, but how are those other experiencing, experiences rather, coloring our way in which brands and advertisers can hit people? Yeah.

Suzy Davidkhanian: I recently saw Nicholas Epley, who's a professor at Booth who does behavioral, who studies behavioral science, who was talking about this exact idea of connecting.

Suzy Davidkhanian: And often people are on their phone because they're worried that if they do smile at someone or they do talk to someone, that they're not gonna respond, right? So it's easier to not- Mm-hmm ... talk to someone than it is to talk to someone. And we've talked about this after I went to the event, Marcus. Like people are conditioned to be kind of worried about other people's reactions.

Suzy Davidkhanian: Yep. So when a retailer does something like the dupes or the yoga class in the, in their store, all of a sudden you have a shared experience and something to talk about, and that also feels less scary. Yeah. And so then we are sort of inviting conversation and community over being on your phone.

Marcus Johnson: What's, what's interesting here, um, Gloria, is that, um, now with the emergence of consumer-facing AI, uh, there's an argument to be made that AI should help, kind of to what Suzy was saying before, uh, especially in terms of shopping, should help you find the thing you want quicker.

Marcus Johnson: It should help you get away from the screen 'cause it's doing all the thinking, uh, or the finding or the research, uh, for you. Um, however, we have some forecasts out on, uh, how much time gen AI users spend per day with, um, these AI, um, uh, uh, tools, LLMs. Half an hour a day. That's, that's of users, of, of gen AI users.

Marcus Johnson: Half an hour a day they spend on, um, on using AI, and that's going up. In a couple of years it'll be about a quarter, over about 45 minutes. Um, do you think that, um, or how do you think ge- uh, consumer-facing AI is gonna change the way we spend and divide our attention?

Gloria Janet Mark : Three really solid studies that just came out-

Marcus Johnson: Mm

Gloria Janet Mark : that show that the more people rely and use generative AI, the, the worse is their critical reasoning. So it's, it's actually impacting their ability to critically think. Why? It's because there, there's a distance between people and the information. So for example, in the case of- Mm. Interesting ... consumer items, rather than your searching through items and learning about things and making trade-offs and making your own decisions, you're, you're getting items that are delivered to you, which may fit and may not.

Gloria Janet Mark : But we've become habituated to simply accept that, hey, this item is being recommended to me, I'm gonna take it. People are losing the experience and the skill of critically thinking. And that's- Mm-hmm ... and that's what, uh, gen AI is doing. And, um, and I, I worry about this a lot as I see the next generation become more and more reliant on, on gen AI.

Gloria Janet Mark : I mean-

Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm ...

Gloria Janet Mark : in, in s- it's, it's not just retail, it's so many aspects of our lives. Yeah.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah Uh, Lindsay, Susan, any thoughts here? Otherwise I can wrap.

Lindsay Sutton: Yeah, I was just gonna say that, like, on the content consumption standpoint, I feel like it's ... We- we're so discerning, right? So we're not trusting it. We're saying like, you know, I have ev- every single day my kids will be like, "Did you see this shark?

Lindsay Sutton: Da, da, da, da." And I'm like, "That didn't happen. That's not real." Yeah. "That didn't happen," right? And so we are kind of going into that, and I think, too, in terms of, like, influencers and creators that are all AI, we're finding it, and it's like we're trusting what we're consuming less. So what I'm seeing is, like, this, this emphasis on living, again, going back to, like, the top of what we were talking about, which is, like, you kinda want real life, right?

Lindsay Sutton: Mm-hmm. Because what you're- Yeah ... experiencing, it's really difficult to tell. I mean, side by side, some of the stu- some of the stuff, yeah, the shark eating the whatever is ridiculous. But the side by side influencer creators, I don't know, some of them are really good. And so then you, you do think, "Okay, well, I could just go and live my life, and I could create the real thing, even if I'm creating content out there with people."

Lindsay Sutton: So I think there's something to be said where, again, I ... There are such wonderful and amazing uses of AI in, in so many different l- places, and that's not what this conversation is about. But in terms of consumption, it's really kind of looking at it and saying, "Okay, well, maybe I'll just go live."

Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm.

Gloria Janet Mark : Well, speaking of, uh, living, um, p- the American Time Use Survey has, um, measured people's leisure time over the last, uh, couple of decades.

Gloria Janet Mark : The amount of leisure time that American people have has not changed in 20 years. It's roughly about five hours a day. What has changed is what people are doing during their leisure time.

Lindsay Sutton: Mm.

Gloria Janet Mark : They're spending more time on screens.

Lindsay Sutton: Mm-hmm.

Gloria Janet Mark : So, you know, the promise of gen AI is that it's going to free up time for us so that, you know, we, we can do all these other things.

Gloria Janet Mark : Are we really gonna read War and Peace? Are we really going to learn to play the flute? No. That's, that's not what, uh, people are doing. Yeah. They're spending that free time on screens.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Um, really quick, Lindsay, to what you were saying, there was some research I saw the other day, I think it was an episode we had, uh, September 25th, we were talking about how, if AI is gonna can hurt your brand.

Marcus Johnson: And it's from Incogni, uh, from August of this year, and it said, it was looking at, you were talking about discerning what is real and what's not, um, US consumers' reactions to the increased frequency of AI-generated content. Number one was, "I'm less sure of what's real." Yeah. 48% of, of people ahead of anything else, deepfakes was, it was I, I, I don't know what to, what to trust, um, anymore.

Suzy Davidkhanian: That's why in real life experiences are gonna be that much more important. Like, one, you're gonna maybe use- Yeah ... your time, like the efficiency that you've gained, you're gonna use it to do something like learn how to play the flute, or maybe you're gonna go to a restaurant and talk to the person next to you, or go and see the dupes in real life at Lululemon because you don't trust what you're seeing from the creator on Instagram, so you wanna go see it- Yeah

Suzy Davidkhanian: for yourself.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah.

Lindsay Sutton: Yeah. And just to make it all about Atmosphere, because I do love where I work, I would say that it's the, the content that we're putting on the screens, it's not AI, right? Like, so that's the type of thing, like we are curating the best of human content by humans. Yes, we use AI in terms of our technology and how we run our business, but that's not what you're seeing.

Lindsay Sutton: And so I do think, and that's not something that, you know, is like our number one value prop, but at the end of the day, there is something to be said where, all right, you're communing in a space, and what you are, you know, absorbing, even if secondhand in that space, is honest and true. There's something really nice about that.

Marcus Johnson: All right. Here's, uh, the top takeaway, I think, from this episode, the kind of growing importance of stepping away from screens and entering the realm of real life, uh, with the greater focus on connection and contextualization. Uh, the goal is to make the experience feel like a natural part of someone's day, rather than a distraction from it.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah, the perfect place to land the plane. Uh, so we've got time for for today's episode. Thank you so much to my guests. Thank you first to Suzy.

Lindsay Sutton: Thanks for having me.

Marcus Johnson: To Lindsay.

Lindsay Sutton: Thank you for having this conversation.

Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm. And to Gloria. It

Lindsay Sutton: was my pleasure.

Marcus Johnson: Uh, absolutely. Thanks to the production crew, Stuart, who runs the team, and also Mike helping us out with this one.

Marcus Johnson: Thanks to everyone for listening to Mind & Amazing Marketing Podcast, made possible by Atmosphere TV. We'll be back on Monday, of course, but until then, happiest of weekends.