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Marcus Johnson: [00:00:00] Atmosphere TV is the largest streaming TV platform purpose-built for shared social spaces like bars, restaurants, gyms, and airports. Atmosphere TV is the creator of CHIVE TV and 30 plus mesmerizing audio optional channels that entertain over 150 million monthly viewers

Hey gang, it's Friday, September 25th. Grace, Asa, and listeners, welcome to Behind the Numbers, a new marketing podcast made possible by Atmosphere TV. I'm Marcus, and joining me for today's conversation we have two of our AI experts. Living in LA, analyst Grace Harmon joins the show.

Grace Harmon: Hi Marcus, thanks for having me.

Marcus Johnson: Hello there. Thanks for being here. On the other side of the country, living in New York, senior analyst Asa Hicken.

Asa Hiken: Great to be here, Marcus.

Marcus Johnson: Welcome back. Saw you on Monday, and thank you for being here for this episode. But before, today's fact.

What share of adults live in the state they [00:01:00] were born in? Any guesses? I'll give you a nationwide. Nationwide, how many people do you think stay in the state they're born in? This has to do with migration patterns and, you know, some, you know, like people moving to the country. Um, but h- by and large, how many people you think end up in the state they're born in?

Asa Hiken: I'm gonna go with, like,

82%. Stay? Yes. I think it- Wow ... I think it's, that's not what I would have thought, but I think it's more than I would have thought.

Marcus Johnson: Grace? I

Grace Harmon: w- I was thinking, like, two out of three.

Marcus Johnson: Okay. Okay, lower. Uh, it's, uh, Grace wins. It's half.

Grace Harmon: Hm.

Marcus Johnson: Uh, according to the... It varies drastically by state. I'll get into that.

According to the US Census, nationwide 49%, say half, uh, of US adults live in the state where they were born. Louisiana had the highest share of adult residents born in state of any US state in 2024, 74%. So that's closer to the number that you guys were thinking of. So it does happen in a lot of [00:02:00] states, actually.

Michigan, Ohio, they follow closely, 72, 71. If you're thinking about the state with the lowest share, it is Nevada, 17%, reflecting decades of rapid population growth and in migration. Between 1970 and 2025, uh, those 55 years, its population grew nearly sixfold, the largest gain of any state over that period.

Florida is the second lowest, 26%, and Arizona with 30. Um, for your states, New York 56%, California 48. I

Grace Harmon: was wondering about California, yeah- Roughly on

Marcus Johnson: par ... 'cause

Grace Harmon: there's a lot of, a lot of migration here.

Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm. Uh, in the VisualCapitalist piece by Niccolo Conte, uh, he notes that generally the further west you get, the lower the share, except for California.

Um, and he pointed out that one of the leading reasons adults remain in their home communities is family, despite how much we complain about them. Uh, among those, uh, who never left, [00:03:00] 35% cited saying, uh, staying near family as the main reason. I apparently couldn't wait to get as far away as possible from my family.

I love you, Mom and Dad. Mom more, but Dad- Aw ... you're still fine. Anyway, today's real- He knows his place in the order. Today's real topic, could AI hurt your brand?

We will have some key takeaways from the episode at the end of the show for you guys, so stay tuned for those. Um, but let's chat. So on Monday, uh, me, Asa, and Jacob, one, one of our colleagues, um, one of our analysts, uh, here at Emarsys, uh, discussed the AI, uh, revolt, um, talking about whether we should slow down AI development.

So go check that episode out. It's one of my favorites of the year. Packed with some really good stuff. Uh, Dan Primack of Axios writes, "I don't know if AI is going to destroy humanity. Neither do you. But here's what I do know. It's very difficult to have a sober conversation about AI risk when there's so much money at stake."

Uh, and that [00:04:00] seems to be the reality for AI companies, um, investors, advertisers, brands, many others with a financial stake in this technology. But at what point do those fortunes begin to reverse if society turns against AI? And what happens when you've already woven AI into every aspect of what you do of your company?

Uh, Grace, I'll start with you. AI can make marketers faster, more efficient, but could using too much hurt a brand's reputation? And what are folks reacting to when they say, "I don't want brands using AI"?

Grace Harmon: For those people, I think there's a couple of different factors. One is, you know, feeling like AI is a bit of an empty marketing gimmick, um, that it can be sometimes a buzzword that isn't, you know, carrying these tangible benefits for the consumers.

There's some data on feeling like it's kind of cringey or that it's losing the human touch. Um, and I do think that the risk grows a lot more when AI is creating something that people, um, believe cu- customers believe came from a person, uh, you know, if it's imitating a real person, um, or if it's [00:05:00] influencing kind of a consequential advertising decision without disclo- disclosure.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Asa, can, can using AI or using a certain amount of AI thresholds, um, arbitrary threshold, uh, hurt a brand's reputation?

Asa Hiken: Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, I think that it, it really ... I think it really depends on, on how it's being used and, and to Grace's point that that disclosure is, is also pretty crucial.

Um, you know, I think that- Probably one of the, the biggest reasons why consumers would feel negatively towards brands using AI is when they feel like they're being, um, lied to in some way. That, you know, some sort of media is being, uh, framed as authentic, human created, but w- in fact, it might be completely generated by AI.

So I think that it's, it's really, um, it's really a, a question of trust and [00:06:00] how transparent a brand is being when they are using the technology.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah.

Grace Harmon: And sometimes it's just really all in. If you think about Svedka or Coca-Cola, some of the recent campaigns they've done, it's just right cen- it's right there.

Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm.

Asa Hiken: Mm.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah, I'm curious 'cause th- people say they want transparency, but we've not seen, uh, a lot of it. Some, but not a lot of it. And so I'm wondering where this line is between using, um, AI behind the scenes and then the customer-facing product, um, that gets put out there, the creative that gets put out there.

And, uh, this word deceived, uh, Asa, is there a point, do you think, where consumers feel deceived if they find out AI was involved?

Asa Hiken: Yes, I think so. So what's interesting is that some of the early instances of, uh, AI disclosures in ads, it's not, it's not very specific. It's just AI, you know, it's maybe a little text at the bottom just says like, "AI was used," but it's like, you know, when you're watching a video, like what, where was it used?

Like, that's, there's a lot of [00:07:00] questions that that asks. Right.

Marcus Johnson: Right.

Asa Hiken: Um, and I think what's interesting too is how- Consumers roundly reject, um, AI being used to recreate voi- human voices and faces. Like, that's... We have data on that that shows for every demographic, age demographic, a majority of US consumers are against that.

Grace Harmon: Mm-hmm.

Asa Hiken: You know, just point blank against AI being used for those purposes. So, um, you know, I think that, like, I could, uh, I could see a, a situation in which putting that ad disclosure could hurt your brand because if you, let's say, use it for a background and then you say, "AI was used in this," and a consumer sees that, they could be like, "Oh, is this human generated by AI?"

Like, now I feel really, you know, against this brand when that might not be the case at all. So I think it's tricky territory that brands have to navigate to be transparent but, you know, not in a way that, that [00:08:00] leaves open, uh, more questions.

Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm.

Asa Hiken: Mm-hmm.

Marcus Johnson: I wonder if, I always refer back to this example of when I read a Atlantic article by Charlie Warzel, and he- the first three paragraphs I got through, and in the fourth paragraph, he said, "By the way, the first three were written by AI."

And I felt a s- you know, a type of way about it. So if you can get away with it, great. If, if not, not so much. Um, consumers, they are somewhat forgiving when it comes to advertising. 56% of consumers say finding out an ad was made mostly with AI would not impact how they feel about the final output according to a global report by VML and s- uh, Sonar.

Um, but some other numbers here, 36% of consumers say they're less likely to engage with or will actively avoid content, this is content not necessarily, not necessarily an ad, if they know- is AI generated compared to only 14% who say they would be more interested, according to 2026 State of Consumer AI Report by [00:09:00] Metal Ventures.

And one last one here, 32% of consumers trust a brand less upon learning its content was AI generated, whereas only 15% say it increases their trust according to a global YouGov and Meltwater study. Uh, Clavio had some research saying basically the same thing. Grace, I'm wondering if there's gonna be a world where if, when, if this gets regulated, there'll be some kind of a grading system, some ki- similar to kind of the, the five stages or s- s- stages of, um, autonomous driving zero to five.

Uh, are there gonna be labels similar to maybe the way that you grade, uh, a, um, a movie, and there's movie certificates, uh, labels on everything saying how much AI or maybe to what Asa said, where AI was used. Do, do you think if, if that comes into effect, a lot of this goes away?

Grace Harmon: I don't think it all goes away necessarily, 'cause for one thing, it's really gonna depend on the individual's perception of what AI, um, kind of means.

I agree with Asa that especially right now, um, you know, [00:10:00] with Instagram, they've added some labels for AI generated profiles, and it's kind of to what extent is the profile AI generated? Is the person real at all? Does that mean that they're just using AI a lot in their editing process? Um, I think that there's just a lot of generational differences right now that'll play into, um, what it looks like when AI gets to be more labeled.

Like baby boomers are a lot more likely to say that seeing an AI label on an ad doesn't really change the perception. Millennials like those more. I think that there ends up being a lot more hesitancy around younger consumers, um, in part from being these heavier users of social media. I think that can feed into greater skepticism.

Um, you know, being exposed more frequently to AI generated content and voices and deep fakes and, you know, AI led misinformation on social platforms. Um, I think that familiarity can breed concern- Yeah ... kind of lead to more questions about what's authentic and when they're being manipulated. I think the grading system is a really good question.

The one thing that I always wonder about is just [00:11:00] what the infrastructure for that will be. If you think about right now, like what can trigger, um, an AI label, a lot of these platforms haven't necessarily figured out the best way to, to detect it, and there's been executives coming out and admitting that as well, so.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah.

Asa Hiken: Yeah, I, and I, I just wanna jump in here too to 'cause, uh, uh, first of all that I wanna be clear on the, the, the source of, of the, the data that I referenced, which is, um, you know, the how consumers generally feel about, you know, AI being used for people and voices. That's, that's from Gallup and Bentley University.

But it's, it's to Grace's point, it does show that 73% of US consumers ages 18 to 29, uh, find it unacceptable for businesses to use AI in voices, for voices or, uh, recreating people, regardless of if, if it's being disclosed or not. So, um, and, and, and it's over 50% for all [00:12:00] other age demographics, but 73%, that's, you know, almost three quarters.

It's just a lot of people who like The, the disclosure actually isn't moving the needle for them- Yeah ... for those specific purposes. And, and I, I wonder how that will change as people get exposed to more AI content going forward. Will that sort of lessen the need for disclosures, or will that, you know, increase the need for, for disclosures?

Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's a good question. Um, okay, so what kinds of AI use are people most likely to be offended by? 'Cause AI-generated, as, uh, uh, AI-generated advertising and imagery, and companies can use AI-written content, AI customer service, um, replace human creatives. Um, uh, what do you think people are, are gonna be most offended by?

Asa Hiken: It's using AI to, to recreate something that actually is real. So do you remember when ... I can't remember for what open AI was, was [00:13:00] promoting, but they, they used Scarlett Johansson's voice. Um- Yes ... and it, but she actually had nothing to do with this release. And then they, like, apologized and, and pulled the voice, but it was like people really freaked out because it, you know, they saw this kind of scary tech company using someone else's voice.

And while they didn't say, "This is Scarlett Johansson," the implication was that this is Scarlett Johansson, and that was, you know, a really ... That, that received a lot of backlash. Um, and so I think that, like, when people start to feel like, again, the, you know, they're being deceived, um, and, and you, you feel deceived when, when reality is, when, when reality is portrayed as, you know, this is how it is- Mm-hmm

but actually, like, you know, this isn't how it is. We used technology to create this. Like, I think, I think that's the most, for a brand, that's the most dangerous territory to waltz into. Yeah.

Grace Harmon: Mm-hmm. I think especially, like, that, that feeling of replacing human creativity is a [00:14:00] really big concern. Um, there is some data that 71% of US adults think that AI is gonna lead to fewer jobs over the next 20 years.

That's from Pew. Um, so I think that as those concerns about what the future's going to be, you know, for jobs, for entry-level hiring, things get higher, uh, concerns get higher. Um, I know that in AI customer service, there's more acceptance just because that is one of those examples of AI being able to increase efficiency on the side of a company, but also have some tangible benefits for consumers.

Mm-hmm. Um, there's just an expectation that you are able to, um, quickly elevate things to a human employee if you need to. Um, and I think that sometimes there's a feeling about, you know, using AI could equate to does that mean that a brand is, isn't trying as hard, that they're not putting in the effort?

Marcus Johnson: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Asa Hiken: Grace, I, I was just thinking about, like, how- You know, talking about disclosures and being transparent, like, you know how Informa ads, they have those, you know, [00:15:00] minute-long disclosure of all the possible symptoms and all, all the possible side effects and all that? Yeah. Like, could you see it, like, under maybe a, a stricter regulatory framework?

Could you see, like, that kind of disclosure, you know, actually, you know, being the case for, for, for some kinds of advertising? Especially, let's say, 100% AI-generated advertising or advertising that creates human voices or, or faces? Like, a huge disclosure like that would ... Obviously all brands would run away from it, but, like, do you, do you think there's any chance that, that kind of disclosure could, could make its way into, you know, national or, or state-level regulation?

Grace Harmon: No. I think that we are still figuring out how to figure out the pace of AI development, let alone to figure out what the harms are going to be going forward. I think that, you know, we're still struggling with what Section 230 does for social media and the development of those [00:16:00] platforms, and Facebook and Instagram have been around a lot longer than OpenAI.

I think that the evaluation of just how AI is going to affect consumer life and consumer health, like mental health, physical health, is still under just so much scrutiny. Um, and we are, I think, quite far away from federal regulation of AI. I think that, you know, we're getting a lot more patchwork of, of rules coming up from different states, but- Mm

no, I, I would doubt that.

Asa Hiken: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I completely agree. After s- kind of saying it out loud and thinking, you know, could this happen, like ... No. I mean, maybe disclosures at all, like, some kind of disclosure will be sort of, like, uh, mandated, but, like-

Grace Harmon: Yeah.

Asa Hiken: I hope so ... certainly not, certainly not a descriptive disclosure.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. The, um ... We had a, a piece, EMARKETER piece, um, that ex- showed the, the kind of what demand for disclosure looks like by the numbers. Some, uh, 91% of consumers expecting brands to disclose AI use in marketing. [00:17:00] Only 35% of US consumers trust AI-generated content at all, according to Amplifeye's- Mm ... uh, Digital Authenticity in the Age of AI report from 2026.

Do people feel this way about AI because it's frustrate- like, it's creating more friction than, um, than it's worth? Like, what happens when things get quicker and easier? What happens when you can't tell that you're talking to, um, a, a- an AI assistant or, sorry, or a chatbot, uh, over the customer ... uh, when you're trying to get customer service?

Will people have as strong of a sense of morality, um, or, you know, what's right or wrong, concerns about job loss, if the thing works really well? So I'm wondering how deep that- Uh, concern, uh, or offense actually runs.

Asa Hiken: Yeah. Well, that, that's ... I mean, we're getting into, into, like, really sort of what are, like, the

what are the psychic motives of, of people and, and, and what they, like, you know, they [00:18:00] want brands to fulfill a certain purpose, but why? And I think that, like, uh, you know, like, okay, if, if you feel like a brand is, is deceiving you on, like, whether that's a real person or not, like, y- I think a lot of people want to know because otherwise you, you feel like you don't have a grip on reality.

It's like if you don't know if that's a real person or not, or if you, you think it's a real person and it turns out not to be, like, that's very destabilizing. Yeah. And I think this is, you know, marketers have access to technology that's more powerful than anything they've really ever had access to. And so, like, if, you know, if you're a brand, you don't have to be, like, really studying this stuff just yet, but you have to be aware that, like, people are so against this because of how destabilizing it can be, and you have to- Mm-hmm

take those concerns seriously.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. To that point, I did find some data, we'll throw this up on the screen, uh, it's from Incogni, uh, from August of this year. US consumers' reactions to the increase of frequency of AI-generated content, [00:19:00] um, the number one reaction, Asa, to exactly what you were saying, 48%, I'm less sure of what's real.

Asa Hiken: Mm. Mm-hmm.

Marcus Johnson: Uh, that beat the lack of accountability for deep fake creators bothering people, I want to spend a significant less time online, more tired, fatigued. Number one was I don't know what to believe anymore. Um, let's end with this question. Grace, I'll start with you. As we enter the, um, a world where the question isn't can AI do this, but will our customers think less of us if they know we used AI to do it, uh, how should brands navigate that?

Grace Harmon: I mean, it's the word of the day. I think that the majority of consumers are more concerned about disclosure than AI use itself. I think that the problem- Mm-hmm ... isn't always AI use, and it can also be the sense that a company is prioritizing this efficiency over quality and genuine connection. So I think making sure that you are, you know, making clear when AI is used, having a solid brand identity and a really clear value pitch to [00:20:00] consumers about what AI use is doing for them and how it's affecting, uh, what's being created.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. Yeah. The, we had another EMARKETER piece noting 28% of social media users worldwide this was said their top brand's turnoff is posting unlabeled AI-generated content from Sp- Sprout Social. Um, that beat brands using engagement bait, um, by, by five points. So, uh, it is definitely top of people's concerns list, um, or brand's, uh, turnoff list.

Uh, Asa, what do you think here?

Asa Hiken: I think that brands have to sort of realize that- They can do everything right here, everything right by their consumers and, and, and let's just say theoretically they do everything right and they can still be at risk just because there's so much AI content out there that could affect how other people perceive them.

So- Mm ... I wanna run this, uh, stat by you all. Uh, this is from DoubleVerify and Sapio Research that found that, [00:21:00] uh, it asks adults worldwide, you know, how would you feel toward a brand after seeing its ads next to AI-generated content? And 40, uh, for low quality AI-generated content, 43% said that, uh, you know, they would feel negatively towards seeing a brand's ads next, just be- just next to that content.

So you, again, you could, like, have a great disclosure. You could say, "We're not doing AI. We're all, you know, 100% real human creative," rah, rah, like okay. And then you show up next to some piece of AI junk, and that's still gonna affect how you-

Marcus Johnson: Mm ...

Asa Hiken: uh, you know, come off to consumers. So there's, there's kind of like a, a huge lack of control that, that brands need to recognize that, like, you c- you have to prepare for these conversations.

You have to prepare for potential backlash because it could hit you even if you think you do everything right.

Marcus Johnson: Yeah. I wanna add to that quickly. Um, I was looking at how consumers feel [00:22:00] about a brand they find out relied on AI for content creation. What's the feeling that they have, or they associate with that experience?

Uh, number one, 26% feel the brand becomes impersonal. 20% view the brand as lazy. 18% deem the brand uncreative. Uh, and just 17% view the brand as innovative- Mm ... for doing so, according to some MarTech research. Um, all right, gang, time for our three, uh, top takeaways from today's episode. Number one, it's up to brands to do right by their consumers.

The current regulatory framework isn't likely to require brands to disclose all the potential harms anytime soon. Uh, number two, there's a lot of psychology at play here. Even being adjacent to AI can affect public perception of an ad. And number three, will consumers' moral stances on AI change as the technology improves and helps them out more?

That's all we've got time for for this episode. Thank you so much to my guests for hanging out with me today. Thank you first to Grace.

Grace Harmon: Thank you for having me.

Marcus Johnson: Of course, [00:23:00] and to Asa. Thanks, Marcus. Thank you, fella. And thank you so much to the production crew, which is John in this instance. Thank you, fella.

Thank you to everyone for listening in to Pine and Remix Marketing Podcast made possible by Atmosphere TV. Uh, subscribe, follow, leave a rating and review if you have a moment. We really, really, really appreciate it, uh, if you can. Uh, and we'll be back on Monday talking about the future of digital. We wrote a report, uh, about, uh, the future of digital, and we just had the event, so stay tuned for that one on Monday.

But, uh, until then, happiest of weekends.